Entry pipe

[RAT]

I wish I had a picture to describe this... but I don't. So I'll try to describe it in words...

I've seen a unique entry pipe on a Hershel House rifle. From pictures, it appears he used it on other rifles and pistols. The pipe is formed in 2 parts. The pipe portion is made the same as the forward pipes would typically be made (formed round from sheet). The rear extension is not formed to fit the contours of the stock transition from upper to lower forearm in any way. It's basically a flat plate that is riveted and soldered onto the round pipe to form the rear extension. The share of the sides is an elongated teardrop, but it's still a flat plate.

I think I've seen a picture of an original gun (possibly a pistol) that used this same kind of entry pipe, but I can't remember where. I'd like to know if any original gunmaker used this style, what school/location/time period, and if anyone else was using it within the school. Pictures of original guns would be great too.

[PPatch]

A picture of the HH rifle you saw would be good. However, from your description I believe you are describing a feature of US Southeastern Mountain rifles with that flat plate between the round RR pipe and extension along the forearm. You'll see that style on Bean family rifles too for instance, and other mountain rifles. If it has history further back, I am not aware of that. Perhaps someone else here can address that.

dp

[RAT]

Here's some additional clarification...
The rear extension lays under the lower forearm as a conventional ramrod entry pipe extension would. This isn't the vertical plate with the hole for the ramrod that we see behind the round pipe on some mountain rifles.

I'll see if I can find a picture online that I can point to.

[RAT]

This is the rifle I'm talking about...
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23051.0

This is a pistol with the same kind of entry pipe...
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/04/hershel-house-pistol.html

[PPatch]

Your first link does not lead to a HH rifle but an example of one of his patch boxes posted here on ALR. The second link to the HH pistol, yeah. A rear pipe like that is outside my knowledge and I will have to leave it to more experienced builders here to describe how it is made. But I will bet that the teardrop has a slight curve to it so that it conforms to the bottom of the forearm where it is inlet. In the pistol photograph it is not clear how the pipe and extension were joined, that would be interesting to know and I hope someone chimes in on the subject. It could be riveted or it might be brazed or soldered...

dave

[KentSmith]

Doing a search on Hershel House pistol on the makers blog there are several pistols he has made using the same treatment as your picture.  One that is different had a drastically shortened brass tang that may give a hint as to how your question might be answered.  another of the pictures seems to show a slight downward curve of the tang as it approaches the tube.  All in all I think it may be Hershel's version of a Soddy Daisy or Tn. entry thimble as mentioned above.  Just speculation.

Too lazy to post the links - will let you do the searching.

[RAT]

The first link I posted is indeed a discussion of the patchbox... but it's the only picture I have handy of the rifle in question. I examined this rifle personally... the extension is simply a flat piece riveted onto the bottom rear of the pipe (I can't remember if it was also soldered). The way it way inletted is very simple. The plate is about 1/8" thick. It was inletted straight down into the wood. The wood is essentially notched from the rear of the pipe to the rear of the extension (tear dropped shaped of course). If you removed the thimble you'd see the ramrod hole in the notch. It may indeed be his own artistic invention. I just thought I saw a picture of an original someplace. I thought someone might have seen other original examples, but maybe not.

 

[Jim Kibler]

I'm not certain of the historical correctness of this arrangement.  I like it, and even if it is a modern interpretation, I think it's fantastic.  Hershel has a tremendous eye for design and this is a good example.

[Dphariss]

That is a cool way to make an entry pipe easy to do but it will not work well on another style rifle.
This is a two piece entry pipe from the Georgia made Phillip Bettis rifle I had here for a few days. It dates to the 1870s most likely but could be 10 or so years either side of the 70s.







Dan

[RAT]

That's very interesting. I hadn't seen one like that before. Thanks Dan.