shooting in

[knapper]

I just got my Pecatonica flint 50 finished a few days ago, also made 2 kinds of lube from bison fat I got from a friend, 1 all fat, the other a 70/30 mix with bee wax.I got a colerain barrel, is there a minimum number of shots to put through the barrel before sighting in ??

[galamb]

My main hunting rifle has a Colerain barrel on it. It pretty much settled down after 40 or 50 rounds.

I don't shoot for "clover leafs" - consistently sub 2" @ 50 yards is what I'm looking for, so once I get that, I (fix) my sights.

[Ron T.]

I just got my Pecatonica flint 50 finished a few days ago, also made 2 kinds of lube from bison fat I got from a friend, 1 all fat, the other a 70/30 mix with bee wax.I got a colerain barrel, is there a minimum number of shots to put through the barrel before sighting in ??

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I like to put at least a few hundred rounds through a new barrel before attempting to "find" THE most accurate load although you can (and should, really) experiment with different loads during the first few hundred rounds as well.

I hunt with an older CVA .50 caliber percussion cap Hawken "Hunter-Carbine" rifle with a 24-inch barrel (1:48 twist) weighing 6.5 lbs with standard measurements across it's flats.  It shoots "touching" clumps of 3-shot groups off a good bench-rest at 25 yards with iron sights if I do my job using 70 grains of FFFg Swiss black powder with a thin over-powder, vegetable-fiber wad & a 188 grain Hornady swagged rifle ball wrapped in a .016" thick cotton wad lubed by a mixture of bee's wax & vegetable oil which is slightly "solid" when not warm, but the warmth of my finger when applying it to my cotton ball-wrap melts it easily.

I can't say I've found FFFg Swiss Black Powder any more accurate in my .50 caliber rifles than FFFg Goex, but Swiss Black Powder is what a good many serious target shooters use (or so I'm told) and  Swiss supposedly yields about a 10% greater muzzle velocity (again, according to what I've been told by a couple of serious hunters).  I just never got around to chronographing the loads yet (after 6 years).

Incidentally, my "serious" target load is 47 grains of Swiss in my older CVA, percussion cap Hawken which has a 28-inch, 1:48 twist barrel using the same components I use for my hunting load except for the amount of black powder used.

I shoot the SAME "target load" in my 33.5-inch Traditions Shenandoah flintlock with a 33.5-inch barrel which is VERY accurate at 50 yards yielding 5-shot "clumps" of holes in the bullseye and 10-ring at that range off the "bench".

All 3 of my black powder rifles have double-set triggers which I believe helps in the "accuracy department".


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Candle Snuffer]

The nice thing about shooting in a new barrel is that you get a good feel for the rifle.  I've really never counted how many shots it actually took, I just enjoyed the shooting and the groups eventually tightened up.

[Barngunguy]

Im working on a new rifle also. Ive found
the only sight move I do is if its low. File the frt
down a little. L and r can change with patch.
I like to put a couple hundred thru it.
then get the rest of it set.

[Daryl]

Scrub the bore with Scotch-Brite (finest one) about 30 strokes or with 0000 steel wool 40 to 50 strokes and the "shooting in" time will be reduced or eliminated entirely. With quality barrels, Goodioen, GM, Getz, Rice used in Taylor's rifles, no "shooting-in" has been required that I've seen. They shoot bug holes (5 shots into 1/4" C T C) at 25 yards or into 1 to 1 1/2" at 50 , right off the bat - first load, ball and patch tried.  We find there might be some fine tuning needed in load, ie: powder charge, but the patches we have down pat.  10 ounce denim works in every rifle I've tried it in - no exceptions.
As far as testing rifle loads at 25 meters - I firmly believe it is a solid waste of powder and time. Test your rifle at 40 to 60 yards.  

Even my smoothbore (no rifling, front sight only) will shoot 1" groups at 25 yards from a rest, with 4 out of 5 in a bug hole, yet I cannot keep 5 in a row on 11" X 8" at 50  meters range(54.5yards).

[Vomitus]

   Daryls, you hate your smoothbore and it hates you! Hug that puppy,sleep with her a few nights and go back out there and shoot it for a couple years.Mothball the rifling guns...and watch what happens!
...or just give me that gun,you're in way over your head with any smoothie!

[Candle Snuffer]

I've used the technique Daryl mentions above, using the 0000 steel wool and I would say it certainly shortens the session to just having to work up a good load.  I'll mention that when doing the steel wool don't run it in and out of the bore, but rather bring it up to the muzzle then push it back down - then pull it back up to the muzzle - then back down - repeat until your 30 to 50 strokes are complete, and on the last stroke pull it out the muzzle.

[Daryl]

ditto snuffer

[smylee grouch]

I have had good luck using JB Bore compound on a Scotch brite pad to scrub the clean bore and slick it up. This stuff realy does a good job of polishi ng the bore and quickens the shoot in process. for me. I have also used the JB compound  mixed in with my patch lube and fired several shots which seemed to do similer things and then worked up my best shooting loads.

[Artificer]

I have had good luck using JB Bore compound on a Scotch brite pad to scrub the clean bore and slick it up. This stuff realy does a good job of polishi ng the bore and quickens the shoot in process. for me. I have also used the JB compound  mixed in with my patch lube and fired several shots which seemed to do similer things and then worked up my best shooting loads.

I've had ZERO experience using JB Bore Cleaner in muzzleloaders, but a lot of experience using it in modern target rifles and pistols.  So this picqued my curiosity. 

Since JB is a mild abrasive  or very fine lapping compound, do you put it on a patch or lead slug and only push it from breech to muzzle with the barrel tang removed?  Then as the patch drops out the muzzle, return it to the breech to push it through again or as many times as you think proper? 
Gus

 

[smylee grouch]

I use a regular lapping compound if I want to actulay lap the bore with a lead slug but use the JB on cleaning patches, Scotch pads or put some in the patch lube for the first 50 or so shots. The JB has an ulta fine silicon grit that takes very little but does seem to slick the bore up. I have also used the JB on cloudy boers that the owner didnt clean and check offten enough.

[necchi]

All this stuff about "lapping" is just hooey,
There's no need for it, your barrel is and will be fine without it.
You put a twist on your question by adding "before sighting in".

Here's the real deal,
You'll be shooting it with whatever load you choose to begin with right?
So start with a large paper and kinda close like 25yrds,
Shoot for group with the very first 5 shot's,
Adjust the sights for center, and shoot some more.

Now what should happen, is you'll be experimenting with the powder charge adjusting up and down in 5grn increments looking for a tighter group, Then you'll be experimenting with the amount of lube you use on the patch,, Looking for a tighter group,, Then you can experiment with the fabric thickness,, Looking for a tighter group,, You can experiment with all of the above with a different size ball.
All the while Looking for a Tighter group.

You don't have to mess with the sights all the time as this will just screw ya up, your experimenting, changing things, shooting for a tight group not the bullseye. Once you have a consistent one hole group at say 50yrds, then adjust the sights to move that group to center.

During this experimenting process, you'll end up shooting 150-200 rounds and that's about what it takes to get your barrel broke in.
You can skip all this, lap the barrel shoot 50rnds and call it good, but you'll end up with a gun that you don't really know and a load combination that's kind of OK but not a real match winner.

You and the gun are better served if you shoot it and don't use any technique to "speed things along"

Good luck.

[Vomitus]

  I haven't experienced this but have heard that some of the harder grade steel barrels may leave a bur on lands. So I like what Gus says about basically slugging a new barrel with a clean patch with the plug out. I'd patch it clean first,just to see if there are any "snags" in there. If not,good! If so,then I think a slug with a JB Bore cleaner lightly applied patch would cut off any miniscule roughness from the surfaces. Then just shoot it!
  I've never had to shoot in any softer steel barrels,so I've never shot any in. It's kinda neat having your rifle shoot better as it ages.

[Artificer]

Neechi,

I have only "shot in" I think four brand new muzzleloading rifle barrels in my time and never used JB bore cleaner on any of them.   (Other rifles I've owned were originals and didn't need shooting in.)   When I "shot in" those barrels, I basically did what you suggested in your post above and that worked fine. 

When I "shot in" my first new muzzleloading barrel in 1972, I didn't know what JB was and didn't find out about it until I think I joined THE Marine Corps Rifle Team in 1975 as the Junior Armorer.  There it was used in a single cleaning session after firing every 700 to 800 rounds to clean out "copper" or bullet guilding metal and any residual carbon fouling that had not come out from normal cleaning.  Then no more JB until the next 700 to 800 shots had been fired. 

I most likely would only use JB in a muzzleloading barrel  today, if like Leatherbelly mentioned, I found a  snug spot in the bore when new.  I don't expect to find such a snug spot in most modern ML barrels, though.   However, if I did find such a snag, I would dismount the barrel and de-breech the tang and use it from the breech end, only.   

Gus

[smylee grouch]

This is for anyone contemplating the use of JB bore cleaner. The JB , IMHO will not lap the bore as a regular lapping compound does. The JB will basicly just clean and polish the inside of the bore. I think you would have to work on the barrel for years if you wanted to get rid of a tight spot, that would be a job for regular bore lapping compound, IMHO.

[necchi]

Well I'm not saying that lapping doesn't have a place and may even be necessary in some cases.
But going through all those motions expecting that it's all that's needed or that you won't achieve excellent results if you don't is just plain silly.
Break in topics usually become lapping topics ending up with a long debate about proper technique,, when by and far most new barrels are finished from the maker in fine condition and the real thing that needs to be done is to educate the shooter in what the barrel likes best in regard to the load.
And by load I mean the ball size, the patch thickness, the lube properties as well as the powder charge. All 4 components need to come together for the best accurate load for each individual gun.
Even if two friends each buy a new gun from the same maker with serial numbers one digit apart, chances are each gun will have a best load that varies slightly from the other. Each person (the human factor) brings to the load combo his own style/technique, the only way to find it is experimentation. aka; Shooting.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

necchi has said a mouthful there.  I agree that barrel makers today are turning out a wonderful product with great consistency.  With the knowledge I've gleaned over the past forty some years, building and shooting, I can almost always hit a great combination right off the bat, brand new barrel, right out of the packaging.  I test fire every rifle/gun that comes off the bench - I consider it my 'tip'.  And I have yet to be disappointed in a poor performance.  I don't go a long way to perfecting a load - that's something that the owner should want to do, and he'll see the sights differently than I do too.  But I am confident, when I buy a barrel from any one of a half dozen American makers, that it'll shoot well brand new.

[smylee grouch]

You make some good points Necchi, every one should work up a load by experementing, and carefull deliberate shooting. Using something like JB Bore cleaner doesnt harm anything and you dont take the gun apart to use it. You just clean the bore, polish its inside. Most new guns dont need it but it wont hurt anything by using it. You should still work up your best shooting loads even if you do use it.

[Artificer]

Sorry I have to use a modern gun example, but here goes.  We sometimes used JB bore cleaner as the final lapping compound when fitting NM .45 Pistol Slides to frames after using 800 and sometimes 1200 grit lapping compound.  Yes, it does mostly just polish, but it will  take some metal off when two metal parts are fit that tight, I'm talking in the area of Ten Thousandths of an Inch.  Of course, there is almost nothing that is fitted that tight on muzzleloaders.

I have personally seen two NM Rifle Barrels that were ruined by the over usage of JB bore cleaner when cleaned from the muzzle.  I can't tell you how long it took to get that way as I don't remember, but the people who had done it had used JB every time they cleaned the bore on an almost daily basis after practice and the bores were ruined at about half the barrel life.  It could be they didn't get all the JB put every time they cleaned it and the remaining JB in the bore would up "fire lapping" the bore on the next round fired.  We could never find that out.  We confirmed the wear by using our Precision Air Gage Machine, BTW, as we gauged and recorded the measurements of all our NM barrels when we installed them  We never complained to JB about it because our shooters had not followed the directions on the JB containers, nor the Team's recommended cleaning procedures.  It was our fault, so we never contacted JB about it.  .

Now I realize that most folks aren't using a ball that is .008 larger (or more) than bore size in their muzzleloaders - so results like this would be even far less common than in modern barrels (and it certainly is almost never seen with modern barrels when people follow the directions properly).  I just brought this up because if one chooses to use JB in their rifles, it probably is a good idea to make sure you get it all out before firing again, when you do use it - as the instructions recommend.

Gus

[Bob Roller]

To me.the idea of speeding things along belong on a race track and is contradictory to anything related to traditional muzzle loaders.

Bob Roller

[bob in the woods]

Just a thought, but some folks complain about their barrels becoming too "slick" after many many rounds through them; with accuracy dropping as a result.  Larger size ball and more ie increased powder chargers are needed to bring back accuracy. [ or attempts made to de-slick the barrel ]   Why would you want to hasten this ?
If the patches are not torn, then you're good to go IMO

[dagner]

necchi  your lapping is hooey is plain wrong. everything has its place

[Dphariss]

Funny.
First JB is so slow acting I have no idea how many cycles it would take to make a major difference in the barrel. Running a dirty brush into a muzzle is probably more damaging.
Trying to lap .001 out of a barrel with something like 320 clover takes more time than most would believe.
Lapping is a very useful tool.
People need to understand that the barrels we get today including many CF barrels are incredibly crude compared to a nicely lapped barrel. All the old target barrels were lapped. Many had a choke lapped in.
People just do not look at enough really quality barrels or have never seen one.
Very few ML barrels are REALLY smooth internally and do not feel smooth when a patch is run down them. Not like a really smooth barrel does.
There are ML barrel makers who drag the reamer back though the barrel after its reamed, cutting scratches as they go that then show up on the lands after its rifled. HS shop class quality barrel making.
These actually look like flaws in the steel but unless they appear in the grooves they are just scratches from crappy workmanship/poor shop practice. But since they do not show except with a bore scope, usually, nobody notices. One NEVER pulls a reamer back though a precision hole unless its a blind one.
Then we have barrels like the Douglas CF barrels. Some of which are so rough that when a lap is cast in them they will "sing" as the lap is pulled back and forth. These are "standard grade" CF barrels.
I have a GM 54 I lapped for a few hours to smooth it to see if it cleans easier if I ever get it built into a rifle. It should. It was not a bad barrel to start but I felt like doing this so I did.
Barrels can be improved for initial shooting by white or gray Scotch Bright (auto parts store) or 0000 steel wool. 5-10 strokes will take off any burrs that might be on the edges of the lands if patched tightly.
Fire lapping works, if done right, in brass suppository guns anyway.

Dan

[Bible Totin Gun Slinger]

My new Colerain 50GtX36"
Shoots perfect right out of the box, I'm talking 1 hole groups at 60 yards, you know a big hole, but they all touch.   I can't believe my eyes.
This thing is too good to be true

I sure hope that after its broken in it still works.