Possible Indiana, Ohio (or Virgina) longrifle?

[mstriebel]

Dear All,

I just purchased an old longrifle from the early 1800s that I think may have  been made by an Ohio or Indiana gunmaker.  I feel I owed it to the craftsman that made this old rifle to find out as much as I can about the item as a way of honoring his work.

I was hoping some of the experts on the American Longrifles forums might have some ideas or suggestions that might me understand a bit more of the history of this old rifle?

This rifle is said to have been owned by one Miles Ratcliff.  (You can never be 100% sure on the stories on these old rifles, but I have written documentation from a family member of a Fountain County doctor that purchased the rifle in the 1950s from granddaughters of Miles Ratcliff,  and Miles’ initials are carved on the rifle, so this story seems more likely than not.)  Miles Ratcliff was an Indiana pioneer who moved as a small boy with his family in 1827 as one of the earliest settlers in Fountain County in west central Indiana.

The basic facts on the rifle are as follows:
* 46” barrel, but was probably 48”+ before a couple inches were cut off sometime during its life.
* The lock is marked Sheldon Phelps & Co., which was a hardware importer out of New York City.
* The rifle was converted from flintlock to percussion sometime during its life.
* The stock is curly maple
* The caliber appears to be just a bit less than 40 caliber.

The basic history of the Ratcliff family is this:
* Thomas Ratcliff (father of Miles) was born in 1787 in Buncombe County in far western North Carolina. 
*Thomas Ratcliff then moved soon after birth to Chatham County in central North Carolina. 
* In 1813. Thomas Ratcliff moved his family to Highland County in southwestern Ohio.
* In 1827, the Ratcliff family, including six-year old Miles, moved to Fountain County, Indiana.
* Furthermore I found out that one of the six brothers of Miles Ratcliff – “Black Tom” Ratcliff  (1819-1911) – was listed as a known gun maker in A.W. Lindert’s “Gunmakers of Indiana”.  However, no known examples of his rifles that I have been able to find still exist.

Based on the Ratcliff family history, I would have expected the rifle to have been made in Indiana or perhaps Ohio.  However, when I contacted a gentleman at the Kentucky Rifle Association as well as Mr. Ivey, the author of North Carolina Schools of Longrifles (1765-1865), their consensus opinion was that:

1) The rifle seems most typical of the type of longrifles made at that time in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia.
2) The rifle looks to be of a type typical of those made from 1820-1835.

The problem is that there is nothing in the Ratcliff family’s travels from Carolina
to southwest Ohio, to west central Indiana that would have it make sense that they would get a rifle from the Shenandoah Valley and if the rifle was obtained by the Ratcliffs in the 1820 or 1830s, it would seem to have had to have come from a maker from Indiana or Ohio.

Does this rifle exhibit characteristics of any particular region of Ohio or Indiana or perhaps a particular gun maker of which you are aware?
Thanks,

Matt

[Tanselman]

I do not see any Indiana or Ohio details in this rifle. A good number of details suggest a Virginia origin about 1825-1830; I'd agree with the folks you spoke with from the KRA. Shelby Gallien, KRA

[Robert Wolfe]

There is nothing to say that Radcliff bought the rifle new, he could have bought it from someone who came through/from Virginia.

[galamb]

I have been doing a good bit of research/looking at Shenandoah rifles in anticipation of my next build.

From what I have seen I certainly see similarities between the patchbox on this rifle and some on various rifles from the Sheetz/Lauck clans.

Likewise, the longer tang was not out of place on rifles from the area.

The sideplate looks Germanic in style and seems somewhat "common" on rifles from the Shenandoah region and even a few pre-1820'ish Maryland rifles that I have seen (and probably many other eastern rifles of the same period).

The lack of a muzzle cap is not something I have noted on the many rifles I have looked at.

Have one question. Since it's not apparent in the pics you posted, where is the (first) barrel pin located - the one closest to the breech end?

If it is located in the immediate vicinity of, or "forward" of the ramrod entry pipe that is a fairly strong indicator that it is a Virginia rifle.

[mstriebel]

Thanks to all for your input.

Graham mentioned that having the first barrel pin in the vicinity or forward of the ramrod entry pipe is another indicator of Virginia made longrifles.  The first barrel pin is actually dead center above the ramrod entry pipe.  Taken together with     Mr. Gallien's comments, the evidence seems pretty overwhelming for this being a Virginia made rifle.

As Mr. Wolfe pointed out, there is nothing to say that this rifle could not have been purchased from someone that came through/from Virginia.  What had me stumped was that addition to there being no Ratcliff family connection to Virginia or evidence the family ever traveled there, there was also the fact that there was relatively little settlement in Indiana in the late 1820s and 1830s from Virginia.  The great majority of settlers came from North Carolina, Kentucky, or Ohio.  However, all it takes is one Virginian passing through, and that is what seems to have been the case with this rifle.

Thanks again to all for the education.

[brooktrout]

I am probably the least informed person around but I will add two observations.  I have come upon a rifle made by a maker named "Sites" from Virginia.  The patch box is remarkably similar to the one I have seen (and hope to purchase).  Also, the cheek piece is exactly the same form as the Sites rifle.  One could look at the two from that point and essentially not tell which was which, except for the inlay above the cheek piece on yours.  Sites appears to have had something of what I'll call a "trademark" and from what I know it may be found on the barrel.  I'll describe the mark as something like the + symbol with multiple small o symbols.  As I recall the o's were at the top and bottom of the vertical bar on the +

I also am in the Virginia cap as to the likely origin.