Author Topic: Lollipop Sight (Read 10549 times)

frogwalking · « **on:** April 18, 2014, 02:33:20 AM »

A while back, someone made a real nice mount for a lolipop type rear sight on the tang of their rifle. I can make one, although it won't be that nice. However, where does one get the sight to screw into the nice custom made base? If the answer is he makes it, how is that done? Thanks.

whitebear · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2014, 02:51:39 AM »

IIRC and I may not, that was Rolf that manufactured the sight base. Now the sight itself I don't have any idea but if it was Rolf he probably made it himself.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #2 on:** April 18, 2014, 05:07:29 AM »

Taylor was working one up for his Hawken, brazing a lump on the tang for the sight base. 80 TPI threads.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2014, 06:29:28 AM »

I think there was an article in Muzzle Blasts mag. on how a lolypop sight was made not too long ago. Fred Stutzenberger or some such wrote the article if I'm not mistaken.

T*O*F · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2014, 04:23:21 PM »

I did one several years ago. Made the base out of brass bar stock. Mine was screwed to the tang. As I recall, I bored the mounting holes while the stock was "in the square" so they would be 90 degrees to the bore. Then I ran a straight edge from the top flat back over the tang and found the angle to cut the bottom. From there, I essentially had a triangle that I worked down by hand until everything fit where I wanted.

I used this sight because the gun needed both windage and elevation for longer ranges. The mounting stud was soldered into the brass base. It's a Pedersoli Creedmore #USA468 sight.

whitebear · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2014, 06:41:37 PM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on April 18, 2014, 05:07:29 AM

Taylor was working one up for his Hawken, brazing a lump on the tang for the sight base. 80 TPI threads.

I didn't remember correctly

it was Taylor. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Topknot · « **Reply #6 on:** April 18, 2014, 07:38:14 PM »

T*O*F*, Wow, what a great idea for a custom peep sight! I have a newly acquired custom Hawken that needs a peep sight on it and that one is just the ticket. What type of front sight do you have on that rifle?

topknot

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #7 on:** April 18, 2014, 08:24:41 PM »

It's funny you should bring that up, 'cause it happens that right now, I am making the lollipop tang sight for the pistol gripped Hawken rifle on the bench right now. So far, I've made the staff and threaded it with Bob Roller's die 1/4" x 80 tpi, the jam nut to lock the sight, and I've machined the disc, and cut the dovetail for the windage adjustment piece and the aperture itself. At 80 tpi, each revolution of the staff moves the sight .0125". It takes a while to thread two inches of 1/4" rod @ .0125" per revolution. And cutting the threads in the tang is going to be tricky. The feed pressure needs to be very precise and consistent, otherwise I'll simply ream the hole clean...the threads are so fine. That's what happened with the test piece. I have yet to make the male dovetailed slider with its adjustment screw. I'll take a few pictures for your entertainment.
I also have yet to drill the finish hole through the tang and thread it. I'm using the photos I have of Hawken's original sight for reference, so no innovation here.

Dphariss · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2014, 08:38:35 PM »

Quote from: frogwalking on April 18, 2014, 02:33:20 AM

A while back, someone made a real nice mount for a lolipop type rear sight on the tang of their rifle. I can make one, although it won't be that nice. However, where does one get the sight to screw into the nice custom made base? If the answer is he makes it, how is that done? Thanks.

Make it. Solder the "eye cup" to the shaft with hard silver solder or braze it or weld it.

I have a couple of fine thread taps and dies to make the staff from. One is 1/4-80.

Dan

T*O*F · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2014, 09:57:00 PM »

Quote

T*O*F*, Wow, what a great idea for a custom peep sight! I have a newly acquired custom Hawken that needs a peep sight on it and that one is just the ticket. What type of front sight do you have on that rifle?

I used a Lyman 17A front sight with interchangeable inserts. They come in 3 different heights. I think I ordered the shortest one first and it was too low, so I ordered the middle one.....but I'm not sure. It could have been the other way around.

I used a string and a level to get the holes in the front and rear sights parallel with the bore, so at its lowest setting it could be used at 25 yards and then upwards to 500 yards. This was determined by lowering the step at the rear of the base before I soldered the insert to the base.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2014, 03:47:34 AM »

Taylor,
If memory serves me right,the tap drill for the 1/4x80 is about .235.
A 6MM reamer will be that size and leave a better finish that a drill bit.
Be sure to flood the hole to be reamed with a good tapping fluid so the
hole will be on size.Dry reaming makes oversize hles in steel.

Bob Roller

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2014, 09:48:01 PM »

Here's where I am so far. After I posted. I went to the shop and cut my staff to length, drilled the disc for the staff, turned the end of the staff to mate with the disc, and drilled and tapped the windage adjustment 6 x 40.

I think I'll set it aside at this stage, 'til I've got the stock stained and finished, and the hardware polished. I'm sending the hardware to Wyoming Armory for colour case hardening, so while it's away, I can chequer the grip, blue the barrel and tang, and finish the sight. Less down time that way. This has been quite a project.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2014, 10:03:36 PM »

Thanks Bob. I had only a rough idea of which would be the appropriate tap drill, so I ended up with a #1 drill bit, and it has worked fine. I don't have a 6 mm reamer - I wonder if Sam Hawken did? Yet he made at least three of these sights that we know of. I am also guessing at the staff thread too...from the photo, it appears to be very very fine, so the 1/4" x 80 tpi is appropriate, I think. Also, elevation must be acquired with full turns of the disc since the aperture is only on the back side. In this case, each turn elevates .0125".

Bob Roller · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2014, 01:50:55 AM »

Taylor,
That looks like fine work to me. Keep that hyperfine tap and die and if I ever need it,I will let you know.
Once in a VERY rare while,I will make up a folding tang sight like those found on English long range guns
but the 1/4x80 isn't part of that equation.I make an 8x40 elevating screw which is the same as a micrometer thread and gives .025 for each full turn.

Bob Roller

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2014, 05:38:06 AM »

Taylor, your work is impeccable. I can't wait to see the finished project.

Sawatis · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2014, 08:32:18 PM »

Hey Guys,
This brings about a question...I have seen a few pictures over the years of peep or Peep-like sights on longrifles..pre -Hawken era..Think these were more like diopter sights to improve visual acuity for seeing iron sights for my staring at them...usually combined with some rear sights that had flip up (or down...depending on your persuasion) leaves. My question to y'all is...what do we know about these uses of a shooting aid? Does anyone have pictures/specs of any originals? This has intrigued or beguiled me for a spell.
John

dlbarr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2014, 08:03:54 AM »

This topic in general is fascinating to me and, Taylor, that particular project you have there is doubly so. Don't know why, but of all the parts on a gun, I find different styles of iron sights most interesting. I have manufactured a few aperture sights of my own, but certainly nothing that intricate.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2014, 07:18:43 PM »

Years ago, somewhere around 1980, a friend had me make a lollipop tang sight for his Hawken rifle. I had seen one on New England half stocked rifle that was owned by Les Hawkes, out Smithers BC way, and it was so simple, I used the design to recreate mine. It was simply a threaded staff, likely 1/4" x 28 tpi, with a 3/4" disc of steel attached to the end. The disc was about 3/16" thick and was countersunk from both sides to the middle where an aperture of around 5/64" was drilled. I had brazed a lump onto the tang, shaped it, nd drilled and tapped it for the staff, and a half turn would elevate the sight. It was simple and aided alot in target shoting.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #18 on:** April 23, 2014, 03:43:06 AM »

That sounds so much like the sight I have on a 40 cal. perc. English style gun. Works great even though the adjustments are somewhat course.

Habu · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:18:37 AM »

Quote from: Sawatis on April 21, 2014, 08:32:18 PM

Hey Guys,
This brings about a question...I have seen a few pictures over the years of peep or Peep-like sights on longrifles..pre -Hawken era..Think these were more like diopter sights to improve visual acuity for seeing iron sights for my staring at them...usually combined with some rear sights that had flip up (or down...depending on your persuasion) leaves. My question to y'all is...what do we know about these uses of a shooting aid? Does anyone have pictures/specs of any originals? This has intrigued or beguiled me for a spell.
John

There are similar sights in Payne-Gallway's crossbow book; in some cases their use may have overlapped the time period of use on rifles. Germanic riflesmiths were probably at least somewhat familiar with these.

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Author Topic: Lollipop Sight (Read 10549 times)

Sawatis

dlbarr