Long Rifle, Patchbox, Anyone Know Who the Maker is?

[Antiqueguns]

079-0414-R026, Long Rifle, Flint, converted to percussion.  With brass patchbox, silver mountings.  I was told this was a Pennsylvania Gun, but no name is on the top of the barrel.  It has a 2 screw lock, a wide butt stock, with Roman Nose curve to stock.  42 1/4 inch barrel, in large .54 caliber, rifled bore.  A couple of period repairs.  Very interesting gun.  The decorations are real silver, with exception of one that is a replacement and it is German Silver.  The silver decorations are the plates on the forearm, (7 of 8 are silver) the medallion on the spine is silver and the quarter moon above the check rest is silver.   I seen no sign of Faux striping that has worn away.   I hope that answers questions.  The silver appears to be coin silver, not sterling.  The bore is strongly rifled, but old rifling, with lots of dust spotting and residue the entire length of the bore.  The double set functions, you must set the rear trigger, then cock the hammer to fire.  It is hard to tell from photos, but the butt section is wider than you see in later guns

[Majorjoel]

In my opinion you have a longrifle made in the Berks County Pennsylvania area. The majority of the rifle's made there were unsigned.  Looking for any tell tale signs for a gunsmith, from the patchbox finial style there were several makers that used that "rooster head" design. I believe it was first used by John Bonewitz who trained Andrew Figthorn and Leonard Reedy, who also used this same style once in a while. I'm not saying your rifle was made by one of these guys as there were a bunch of other smiths using this box or variations of it. The two piece side plates kind of throw me a bit as well.  Simon Miller worked later than Bonewitz used it around the 1830 period. From the Red Patchbox Book by Chandler I found a pretty good number of unengraved PB's of this type that were just signed with maker's initials. Pretty hard to pin down a name without more decoration to give a worthy attribution.  Perhaps a collector that specializes in Berks Co rifles will chime in with more thoughts. It is a very nice rifle you have there Rob.  I appreciate you showing it to us........Joel

[Nate McKenzie]

Check out the Gallery- Upper Susquehanna School on this website.
http://hurricanenordgallery.com/

[JTR]

Joel is right about the use of the PB shape, but, with the two piece side plate, butt stock shape and trigger guard, I'll agree with Nate that this rifle is a Upper Susquehanna gun.
Not that it matters much, but I'd question the originality of the lock.
John

[Majorjoel]

John, those darn upper susquaches get me every time! 

[eddillon]

Anybody see hints of Long family or at least someone influenced by them?  Those squiggly criss-crossing sine waves on the barrel strike a familiar note but my old brain can't recall who was known for that type of embellishment.

[nord]

Actually the question about Long association might better be phrased as related to families roughly in the Shamokin, Sunbury, Selinsgrove triangle. Joe Long was a fine and prolific maker, however there were other fine but lesser known makers resident in the area. The similarities between many of their products is close enough to leave us pondering when a gun is unsigned.

My guess? I think not made by Joe Long as I'd expect more out of the patchbox. The "football" sideplate, though, certainly harkens to a close connection with Long and other resident makers of that general area.

In any case no demerits should the gun not be by Old Joe. I believe originally a flint lock. It stands well on its own and is a very nice piece.

[Loudy]

Nice rifle.  I agree with previous postings suggesting that this gun was made by a gunsmith in the Union / Snyder County, Pennsylvania area or by a gunsmith that learned the trade in that neck of the woods.  However, without a signature it's very difficult to say exactly who made this gun.  The patchbox finial and wriggle engraving work are not distinctive enough to narrow the possibilities down much.  Pretty sure it wasn't Joe Long.  He had some son's that made guns.  Who knows?  Sam Morrison would be another possible maker.  The wriggle work on the top barrel flat was used as a decorative feature by many Union/Snyder County gunsmiths.  I have also seen variations of the patchbox finial used by several gunsmiths from this area. 

Anyway, I guess the two lock bolts are why main reason why you would speculate that this was originally a flintlock (?).  The spur on the triggerguard is typically seen on later guns.  It looks like there is a hole for a pin just behind and below the rear lockbolt sideplate.  Maybe this was for pin used to secure a simple single trigger that was long ago replaced by double set triggers?  Maybe the original triggerguard was replaced when the gun was converted to percussion and the triggers were replaced?  It would be interesting to know if the inlays are indeed coin or sterling silver or if they're German silver.  This would help date the gun.  The rather shallow curvature and width of the buttplate is indicative of an earlier gun.  The plain grain maple is also sign of an earlier gun.  Are there any traces of artificial painted on stripes applied to the stock?  Faux stripes were commonly used by Union / Snyder County gunsmiths to jazz up an otherwise plain piece of stock wood.  The relatively big bore size is also very interesting.  Just my thoughts. 

Mark Loudenslager                       

[Bill Paton]

As implied by JTR, I would love to look at the lock mortise for signs of re-fitting a newer lock.. That late lock plate doesn't match the early stock, and the little notch in the stock behind the back flat of the lock plate looks like an original mortise for the pointed tail of an early lock plate. Detective work like this makes looking at a nice "new" gun fascinating.