Forestock thickness

[Jerry V Lape]

Reading "Gunsmith of Grenville County" the forestock is to be brought to a thickness of 1/16th of an inch.  That seems to present a problem at the muzzlecap as it would not leave but 1 /32" of wood to hold the muzzlecap.  Do you flair the sides of the forestock as you get to the muzzle and if so what thickness of the wood is retained to support the cap? 

[Acer Saccharum]

Most of my forestocks are about 1/8" plus at the swollen part. Wafer-thin at the top edges. I'll see if I can dig up an image fur ye.

[galamb]

I have only done a few, but I do go very very thin at the muzzle cap but then "cheat". I mix up some marine epoxy and let the "paper thin" wood soak up all it will take prior to installing the cap. That makes it super strong.

H/C, nope, but don't worry about busting off the cap and underlying wood if the stock gets banged when the barrel is out.

With the barrel in, if the fit is (tight/close), I believe the barrel would provide enough support for the wood, which would be sandwiched between the cap itself and the barrel.

[d-a]

Tom maybe one of your sketches to show where the 1/8 inch is measured would be helpful too. I know it would for me.

d-a

[Mark Elliott]

Given that I make VA/TN guns mostly,  I make my forearms about 3/32" thick.    Originals that I closely measured, varied about that thickness.    As to nose pieces like you show with the indention for the ramrod,  they were generally riveted through on the diagonal flats through the thickest part of the wood.   

[Acer Saccharum]

Tom maybe one of your sketches to show where the 1/8 inch is measured would be helpful too. I know it would for me.

d-a

Ref the photo I just attached above.

I don't ever measure stuff like this. Too many other things in my life are measured by time, money or calipers.

[d-a]

Tom maybe one of your sketches to show where the 1/8 inch is measured would be helpful too. I know it would for me.

d-a

Ref the photo I just attached above.

I don't ever measure stuff like this. Too many other things in my life are measured by time, money or calipers.

Thanks the picture explains a good bit. You wouldn't have one looking straight down to see the width of the fore stock.

d-a

[eddillon]

I have only done a few, but I do go very very thin at the muzzle cap but then "cheat". I mix up some marine epoxy and let the "paper thin" wood soak up all it will take prior to installing the cap. That makes it super strong.

H/C, nope, but don't worry about busting off the cap and underlying wood if the stock gets banged when the barrel is out.

I'll bet if the makers of old had the glues and epoxies that we have today, they would have made good use of them.

[Acer Saccharum]

D-A, I don't have an image of straight-on.

Some of these things you just have to take your best shot at, and then if it doesn't come out just right, correct it on the next gun. Next gun? Yes, this not a one-gun kind of hobby; it's either a curse or a blessing. Correct your sins on the next gun, only to find you've committed new crimes, and need to build another one. It's a slippery slope you've started on.

Welcome to the penitentiary.

By the way, my stuff is new-age repro, so it's not like referencing original work. Try to look at guns in museums for details like this. Some guys keep notebooks of drawings, sketches, questions, etc. It's a very good practice, especially when you look back, you will see how far you've come. A little perspective does us all good.

[d-a]

Thanks for the welcome. I hope my simplistic questions don't irritate you or any other members.

I don't have any local museums to look at originals, but I have been buying all the reference materials I can. My biggest issues is that the plans that I have bought don't coincide with the originals in my reference material.

d-a

[Jerry V Lape]

Acer,  Perhaps I should have asked the question differently.  I am in the process of removing excess stock from the blank now that the barrel is inlet, buttplate on, lock inlet and wood at the lock plate area established.  What dimension do you set in bringing the sides of the forend close to finished size before beginning the rounding.  Gunsmith of Grenville says 1/16" which would make for a nice sharp transition to the upper edge. 

[Ed Wenger]

Jerry,

Personally, I think 1/16" is a little slim.  I typically go for 1/8" along the barrel.  Lay a 1/8" drill bit on it's side, and trace a line along the stock as you slide the drill bit along the side of the barrel.  That makes for a slim stock and works well for achieving a "strawberry" shape, or "V" shaped fore end / fore stock.  Hope that makes sense....


        Ed

[KLMoors]

I do exactly what Ed does. I find that after my final sanding and scraping, I end up with just under 1/8 on each side. Probably 3/32" on each side.

For the forestock section between the entry pipe and the breech, I go a little thicker. Probably a full 1/8" on each side. Since that section is taller, this allows me to achieve a nice arc to the stock there. Otherwise, it can get a little slab sided.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

D-a:  If you bought the plans from TOW, it is likely that they are made around the parts that TOW sells, and so the forearm will be a minimum of what the commercial nose piece is....not necessarily H/C.  but I agree - I think 1/16" is too thin.  Some forearms I have studied appear to be that thin, as you look down onto the barrel's top flat, but in fact it's an illusion caused by the rounding up and thinning of the stock along the barrel channel.  Lehigh Valley rifles are quite thick along their forearms...1/8" and more!  But are flat "V'd" from the rounding to the rod channel.

[flehto]

Initially a short length of 3/32" metal is laid alongside the bbl and moved from breech to muzzle as a line is drawn on the outside of the metal. I then bandsaw just touching the line.

This thickness is  reduced to 1/16"  when shaping and finally sanding the forestock.....  except the 3/32" is retained starting  about 4"-5" from the muzzle.

Most of the time I make the Mcaps from  .035-.040 brass sheet which reduces the wood a lot less than the  thicker cast Mcaps. ......Fred

[Nordnecker]

for whatever it's worth, I used a nickel to trace alongside the barrel on my gun. I cut the excess just leaving the pencil mark. This worked well from the muzzle to the entry pipe. If I had it to do over, I'd leave a little more from the entry to the lock panel. P.Alexander's method of removing/rounding the wood using 2/3ds really worked well up front and works in harmony with the ramrod. Not knowing any better, I continued this rounding through the entry pipe area and it left it a little bony feeling and slab sided. No problem whatsoever with the 1/16th at the muzzle cap. I used .40 thou brass and it feels much stronger than the rest of the fore stock.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree with you that the lower forearm needs a little more wood than the upper forearm.  but a common mistake I see on some builds is the bottom of the lower forearm is not shaped up enough, and is left rather flatish.  This adds to the slab-sided look of the forearm.  The lower forearm should be at least round in section and egg shaped works too.

[2veeps]

for whatever it's worth, I used a nickel to trace alongside the barrel on my gun. I cut the excess just leaving the pencil mark. This worked well from the muzzle to the entry pipe. If I had it to do over, I'd leave a little more from the entry to the lock panel. P.Alexander's method of removing/rounding the wood using 2/3ds really worked well up front and works in harmony with the ramrod. Not knowing any better, I continued this rounding through the entry pipe area and it left it a little bony feeling and slab sided. No problem whatsoever with the 1/16th at the muzzle cap. I used .40 thou brass and it feels much stronger than the rest of the fore stock.

Being relatively new, what is  P Alexander's method of rounding using 2/3d method?

  -veep

[galamb]

The 1/3 - 2/3 is a process of deciding where/how to shape the forestock.

It is explained in the book "The Gunsmith of Grenville County".

Peter suggests that to get the forestock shaped correctly (forward of the ramrod entry) you should shape the "upper" third of the side of the forestock into the barrel and the bottom 2/3's into the ramrod channel.

So the "highpoint" or widest part of the forestock will occur 1/3 of the way down from the top.

That will result in the top (third) being somewhat more "rounded" in shape, with the bottom two thirds, while being rounded, more of a "V" shape.

Here's a rough pic to illustrate.

[2veeps]

Thanks Graham. Great illustration!

- veep

-

[Dave B]

I personally do not like the production muzzle caps. They are just not right to what I have seen on originals. I make all my own as result. Here are a couple shots of the muzzle ends of a Lehigh rifle, east Indianna, and a ArKansas rifle. note that the portion on the sides of the barrel are only about the first third of the flat past the oblique flat. not half way. The thickness of the widest portion of the muzzle cap is seen as at least an 1/8".  Some originals are wider yet at the sides depending on where the gun was built.


The second one here is from a rifle made in indiana it has a oval forarm


This rifle came out of the south. Arkansas if I remember correclty it is much thinner on the sides than any of these other ones being around a 1/16" thick

[Acer Saccharum]

Then there is the Lehigh forestock contour, with the swell right up near the top, kinda wrapping the lower corners of the barrel, with flattish panels running to the rr groove. RR groove has almost knife edges.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Beautiful nose piece Tom!

[Jerry V Lape]

Acer,  That is a beautiful muzzle cap - but now it raises two questions:  Were Lehigh's usually built with a brass cap surrounding the end wood in metal as yours?  Second part is have you a tutorial on making such a cap and I assume it is two pieces soldered at the shoulders?

[Acer Saccharum]

There are different ways the Lehigh caps were done.

I have seen original Lehigh guns with the caps can open on the end, as above; or closed, as in a soldered end piece.

Some caps are made with the top edges of the cap folded into the first flats of the barrel channel; then there is the full wrap, which is the style I did above.

Of the full wrap styles, the brass can be lapped inside the barrel channel Pictured above), alternately, the lap can happen inside the ramrod groove. Both of these get riveted thru the brass on both sided, and thru the wood. No solder on this cap, it's one piece, lapped and riveted. It's a very hard cap to do without losing wood in the thin parts.