Author Topic: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?  (Read 6378 times)

Offline RonC

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An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« on: May 04, 2014, 10:56:38 PM »
I have had this rifle for about 2 years. I have been told that it is an 1820-30 or so flintlock that was converted at some time to percussion. The wood has been mildly refinished.
Other people have said that it may be old metal parts with a later replacement stock.
I would love to have your opinions as I am just a novice and only have started reading about that period of rifle making.









Thank you,
Ron
Ron

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 12:37:59 AM »
 Welcome and you will you learn here. Enjoy the ALR Library and it collective membership. It would seem that  mal fitting of the patchbox to the butt plate, tells a story.
Hurricane
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 12:46:23 AM by Hurricane ( of Virginia) »

Offline RonC

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 01:06:07 AM »
I suppose the fact that the patch box doesn't match the curvature of the butt means that the rifle was restocked at one time. Also, the good condition of the stock compared to many of that era I have seen offers support for that idea.

Ron
Ron

ScottEdvin

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 12:54:44 PM »
It is a beautiful rifle and look antique. For good information regarding this rifle you can take help of gunsmith.

Offline JTR

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 05:40:02 PM »
Either a re-stock, or maybe just as likely, the patchbox was added at a later time to try to enhance the guns value.

As for the condition of the stock, it's hard to tell as the pictures aren't that clear. Parts of it like the forearm pictures look like the wood has been sanded, but the shot of the side plate area looks like I'd expect to see in an old original finish.

There's another rifle on these pages now with an added patchbox and a Winchester type rear sight. I wonder if both of these guns might have been owned by the same person at one time not long ago.... 

John
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 05:47:03 PM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 07:01:48 PM »
How common was it, or is it even possible to tell if, when a rifle was converted from flint to percussion that a patchbox or other inlays were added to dress up a now modernized gun?
Best regards,
Dale

galamb

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 09:34:24 PM »
As caps became available it was probably "somewhat common" to convert existing flintlocks to cap - but since that would be a personal thing, it would depend on the owner.

Simply looking at a lock I have a difficult time accepting that all that are "advertised" as converted were in fact actually converted.

My take is - when percussion first started becoming wide spread, gunsmiths "didn't know" what a percussion lock was "supposed" to look like (since they didn't exist) and many early percussion lock plates "looked like" they were flint.

They may have been converted "before" they were installed in the rifle, just as well as after. OR they could have simply used a "flint" lockplate to build a percussion lock and at "no time" was it ever flint.

Here's a couple pics to illustrate what I am talking about. The builder was John Armstrong who made his own locks.

Here is one of his flints -



Now, looking at this next lock you might conclude it was "converted" - but it never was - it was just the way he built his percussion locks - just made the plate the way he "always had" but adapted it for percussion.

(no evidence that holes for the frizzen/spring were ever present and later filled - they were "never there", so was never a functioning flintlock and wasn't built as one)



If the rifle can be specifically dated to before the widespread of percussion you can say with fair certainty that it was converted, but otherwise it would be a guess at best unless there is considerable other evidence aside from the lockplate itself.

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 11:13:22 PM »
That's good stuff. I was wondering if other additions to the stock might have been made when a flint to cap conversion was done. I know there are plenty of examples of patchboxes added "recently" to guns. I was wondering if it was done during the real working life of the gun. And if so, how could you tell?
Best regards,
Dale

Offline RonC

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 11:14:16 PM »
Very interesting, galamb!
I have so much to learn!

Ron
Ron

Offline whitebear

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Re: An 1820-1830 Pennsylvania (Kentucky) rifle?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2014, 05:58:07 AM »
I have so much to learn!

You are in the right place to learn.  Welcome to the forum.
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