Leather Buttplates

[SuperCracker]

I recently did a build of a cut off fowling gun that was intended as a low buck gun that's kind of an 18thC "Truck Gun". Just to have something other than bare wood on the butt I used some thick leather (turned out nice looking). I didn't really intend for this to be any kind of HC/PC, it was just expedient. Which naturally makes me wonder how many smiths in "the day" thought the same thing.

I've only seen a leather plate on one contemporary gun and don't remember ever seeing one on an original.  Have any of you guys seen a surviving original with a leather cap? A google seach for "Leather Butt Plate" turns up things which cannot be unseen.   


(unlikely I know, as low end guns tended to get used up and junked, but it doesn't hurt to ask.)

[Hungry Horse]

I have seen a couple of modern poor boy rifle at rendezvous, with leather buttplates, both did not wear well, because the leather was  not treated at all, and the butt plate was  simply nailed on with small headed nails. Long ago, before I know what I was looking at, I got a chance to view, and handle an old Dutch musket that had been shortened, half stocked, and reused as a fowling piece. It had a leather butt plate made of jacked leather, held on with large headed copper nails. I suspect some native owner in the past removed the original butt plate, to make a hide scraper, and another owner replaced it with the leather one. The leather had been boiled in some concoction rendered it nearly as hard as iron, and allowed it to wear quite well.

                   Hungry Horse

[rhbrink]

Hide glue?

RB

[jerrywh]

 The main perpose of a butt plate is to protect the stock from splintering or cracking off at the heal.  No matter how good they might look I can't see how a leather butt plate could provide that protection.
  Perhaps we should have a discussion on the practical designs of butt plates and butt caps.

[SuperCracker]

If it's thick, and covers the whole butt it provides a cushion from the heel getting knocked on the ground.  Mine does, or at least I feel like it does.

[JTR]

Look at all the original brass butted rifles with chipped out toes! If you're careful with the leather you might be okay. And of course you can always glue the chipped off toe back on. 

John

[WKevinD]

This buttplate is over ten years old, it has spent time at the range and numerous hunting excursions

[jerrywh]

 wonderful.

[JTR]

Obviously anything is possible,,,,, 

John

[rich pierce]

Old leather generally does not survive too well.  I remember seeing harness in my grandpas barn that was not hanging there more than 30 years perfectly dry and it cracked easier than a taco chip.  So if there were some, they probably didn't survive the centuries.

I don't think a period gunsmith would have used a leather buttplate.  It offers little over bare wood.  I could see a non professional person restocking a gun making do or being inventive.

[Eric Kettenburg]

This seems to be a trend among trade guns, utility muskets etc. that I first saw pop up at the June Ticonderoga F/I event in the early to mid 1990s. 

Please forgive me if my recollection is incorrect, but I think the first guy I saw doing this was Lewis Leonard (spelling?).  I know I saw him at Ti a couple of times with big muskets done this way and I had not seen it previously.

I do not think it has any historical basis, lest it be based upon secondary work.

Leather will suck up water and moisture, and I don't know if I would want that permanently affixed to the end grain of a stock.

[bob in the woods]

Wet leather on end grain was the first drawback I thought of .  And leather is kind of slow to dry .  I'd prefer nothing i.e. no butt plate at all to leather. Actually, a gun I built a few years ago without a butt plate has stood up rather well.

[James Rogers]

Hi Supercracker,
I have done one leather buttplate. Mine was boiled vegetable tanned leather well over  1/4" thick. I heated beeswax into it as well. I don't think the buttplate I applied would have any more adverse effect with normal modern usage than a metal plate taking moisture from the edges. I did seal the end grain quite well. Extreme conditions would possibly cause more problems as moisture could get trapped.
As far as historical usage, I know of none. There are however examples of no buttplate covering at all.
I will never do another.

 

 
 

[jerrywh]

Look at all the original brass butted rifles with chipped out toes! If you're careful with the leather you might be okay. And of course you can always glue the chipped off toe back on.  

John

   A butt plate must be accompanied with a proper toe plate in order to provide the needed protection for the stock on a long rifle.  The toe plate should lock into the butt plate so that it cannot sip below the butt plate. that design provides maximum protection for the toe of the stock.
  Some forms of long rifle are very susceptible to the toe splitting because of the sharp angle at the toe.
 That makes  selecting the wood with the correct grain a priority in these styles also. The grain in the stock should run parallel to the toe line.  The so called old masters were not always so masterful in this respect or many others either. It is not hard to find some mistake in an original in order to justify those that we make today. Nevertheless it only proves that both make mistakes. It does not prove that we are correct.

 If you looke carefully you can see how this toeplate locks into the butt plate at the bottom.

[SuperCracker]

Hi Supercracker,
I have done one leather buttplate. Mine was boiled vegetable tanned leather well over  1/4" thick. I heated beeswax into it as well. I don't think the buttplate I applied would have any more adverse effect with normal modern usage than a metal plate taking moisture from the edges. I did seal the end grain quite well. Extreme conditions would possibly cause more problems as moisture could get trapped.
As far as historical usage, I know of none. There are however examples of no buttplate covering at all.
I will never do another.

Yours is the gun I was looking at pictures of to give me the idea. I didn't have any leather as thick as yours though.  I oiled he leather and sealed the end grain for all they were worth on mine. I also glued it down with hot beeswax to help keep moisture out.

[T*O*F]

There is an ancient process for molding and hardening leather.  It was used for hardening leather armor and involved baking the leather after preparation.  Don't remember what the preparation was though.  I found the process many years ago on a medeval site.  Seems like it would be ideal for this usage.  Maybe you can google it up.

[Habu]

Cour bouilli? 

One way is to harden the leather in wax.  It might work OK, but it is very slick on the shoulder (and when standing in the corner, against a bench, etc)

[T*O*F]

Cour bouilli? 

Yup, that's it.