Author Topic: Rifle Number 3...Uuhhh...#4 FINISHED (First shots at a target)  (Read 30148 times)

Offline davec2

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A while back I posted pictures of the second rifle I had finished recently and I asked for critiques.  I learned several important lessons, but the first two stand out immediately.  First, in the process of posting the digital pictures of that rifle, I saw a series of errors that, for whatever reason, I had not seen holding the rifle in my hands.  (Not sure why, but the pictures seem to show more "truth" in this case).  Second, I could not implement several of the excellent critiques I received from others because the rifle was already finished.

So this time I thought I would do two things.  Number 1, take pictures along the way and look at them carefully to spot things I did not like early enough to possibly do something about any problems that became apparent.  Number 2, post those pictures and ask for critiques early enough to possibly do something about any problems that others point out.

So here goes.......50 Cal, 42 inch Rice swamped barrel, Chambers English round face lock, walnut stock, brass hardware, barrel keys.....Looking for any and all critiques about what is right, wrong, or indifferent...architecture, engraving, assembly,....anything.....  Also looking for suggestions about carving, patch box design, sights, etc., etc.......

Thanks in advance for any comments and help......
































« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:36:57 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 01:44:04 AM »
Looks nice from here!  In pic #12, I would remove that little corner that is formed on the lockplate side of the breech. I see a light line there, so maybe you're on it.

I assume the hole in the flower on the nosecap is for a rivet.

As usual, your engraving is very tasteful and well executed.

Also, thanks for the pictures, as they reminded me I need to rivet the nosecap on the one on my bench.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 02:04:50 AM »
Can't find a thing wrong with it. Somebody is going to be really happy to have that.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

kaintuck

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 02:15:29 AM »
Dave, I really think it's my eyes....but is the top return of the buttplate parallel with the comb?
In pic #3.....it maybe the camera angle.
If it is straight, my apologies...!
Looks great, and how do you like working in walnut??? My 2-4th were in walnut, it's a soft wood, dang hard to see the lines when you draw on it!!!!....but, wear a mask for big sanding on it!

I like to use 1 application of walnut stain, the apply 2-3 coats of spar varnish, with a piece of OOOOsteel wool......try it on a scrap piece to see how you like it....

And you got the wrist/lock panels great!......you must of burning the midnight oil to get this one so far along after the last one.
Marc

JB2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 09:41:45 AM »
well, I'm not qualified to give any critique of the architecture, but glad to see I'm not the only one to get a little 'cheek-oil' on my cheek piece.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 05:58:30 PM »
Quote
it's a soft wood, dang hard to see the lines when you draw on it
I use a soft red colored pencil when working with walnut.

Quote
I like to use 1 application of walnut stain
Why stain walnut to look like walnut?  As an aside, I found that Bartley Gel Varnish in clear satin really enhances raw walnut.  It really makes the grain "pop" and is easy to use and it darkens the wood slightly on application.  Your stock seems to have some nice character in it.  This wood was similar to yours before the finish was applied.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 06:07:36 PM by T*O*F »
Dave Kanger

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-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2014, 06:11:06 PM »
Dave do you do the engraving on or off the gun?
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

DFHicks

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2014, 07:01:18 PM »
How did you darken the engraving?
Thanks,
DF

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2014, 07:24:57 PM »
How is the pitch of the buttplate compared to other guns that handle well for you?
Andover, Vermont

Offline davec2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 07:50:40 PM »
KL Moors- Yes, the corner will go and the hole in the muzzle cap is the precursor for the rivet.

Kaintuck- Yes, the photo is not good but the return on the butt plate is parallel to the top of the comb.  Walnut sanding dust used to bother me a lot but doesn't any longer.  I guess I'm getting too old for my lungs and nose membranes to care what I suck up any more.  When I run rocket engines, I am constantly getting a snot locker full of mono methyl hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide....  :0

Jim B - "Cheek oil"  :)  Too bad I can't use it for a finish.  I seem to have plenty.

TOF - Red pencil....great idea and I will take a look at Bartley Gel Varnish.

P.W. - I do all the engraving off the gun...even inlays and patch boxes.

DF Hicks - I darken the engraving with Birchwood Casey Brass Black and a Q tip and then clean off the surface with 2000 grit silicon carbide paper.

Rich - The pitch on this butt seems fine so far.  This is the first swamped barreled gun I have ever built and it is so comfortable to shoulder that I haven't noticed any issues with the stock shape at all...yet...I also haven't fired it though.....

"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline smart dog

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2014, 10:18:26 PM »
Hi Dave,
Another Crisalli masterpiece in the works.  I like it very much and as always your engraving is superb.  With your forbearance, let me make a suggestion but keep in mind that it is based solely on my personal aesthetic taste.  In the photos below I used the same Chambers lock but note that the molding around the lock is thinner on the top than bottom.  I did that deliberately so that the large lock doesn't create a "lump" in the stock profile at the wrist formed by having to angle very slightly downward from the breech to follow the long lock profile and then curve more sharply down at the tail of the lock.  By allowing the molding to be thinner at the top , I could begin curving the stock downward more sharply almost immediately after the barrel breech.  Also, my wrist thins a little toward the comb.  Those are features that, to me, give a gun a very graceful and elegant look.  But that is my personal taste only.    Good luck and I cannot wait to see the finished gun.  It will be spectacular.

dave


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Offline davec2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2014, 01:41:35 AM »
David,

Thanks for the kind comments and the advice.  It dawned on me during your explanation of the narrower top lock molding that I had not included any straight on pictures of the lock area / butt.  Here are a few more photos.  I see what you are saying about the shape of the stock just behind the breech.  And I like the idea of thinning the wrist a little more near the juncture with the comb.  As it is now it looks a little "chunky".









On the subject of sights, I am thinking about a rear sight like this but set a few inches farther forward of the breech....or should I stick with a more traditional rear sight placed near the rear ram rod pipe location?




« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:38:22 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 02:32:45 AM »
Rich Pierce,

As a result of your question, I measured the pitch on this rifle more accurately.  It is 5 degrees down (positive pitch) and the rifle seems to mount very well with some temporary sights I made out of magnets. (I like to use a pitch measurement in degrees rather than muzzle or toe distance off a surface as it is more accurate.  However, by the quicker method, with the barrel flat against a vertical wall, the toe is about 5/8 inch off the floor.)

Dave C
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 02:50:08 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline bama

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 02:33:24 AM »
Hi Dave2

Very nice work and I would say your engraving is very well done.

At first glance I thought the angle between the butt plate heel and toe was to great but when I go back and look at the ovaerall shots in pictures 1 & 2 it looks fine so maybe it looks a little out in the close up photos.

Side panels are a personal preference I like mine a little thinner but yours are well done and I am sure they will look just fine when the rifle is completed.

I hope you have plans for a nice box for this rifle, that would really set this fine piece off.

Thanks for showing the pictures and for sharing.
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

Offline PPatch

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 02:43:10 AM »
That is going to be a beauty Dave, walnut was a great choice. It may be the light in the photo but It looks like there is a slight dished out area to the rear of the cheek piece. You might it a second look.

Nice!

dp
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline davec2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2014, 02:45:40 AM »
Bama,

Thanks for the note....I think I was posting about the pitch as you were posting your comments.  I do plan on thinning the side panels a little more.  I am in a bit of a quandary about the patch box.  I would prefer a brass box...perhaps side opening???  Not sure.  I like the one I used on the previous rifle



but I don't want to get into too much of a rut.  I tried to change my engraving style somewhat this time around as well...not drastically, but less of it and more traditional motifs.

Any suggestions on a box design?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:38:48 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline rjpalmer

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2014, 05:13:23 AM »
Truly outstandig work! I hope you post photos of your completed work.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2014, 07:05:39 AM »
Dave, looks like another signature build.  I think some of the pictures made it look like there was zero pitch to me; am glad to hear it has some.
Andover, Vermont

Offline bama

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2014, 07:35:07 PM »
Davec2

A side opening daisey box with a slightly domed lid would be killer on that piece of wood and I believe would fit the design of the rest of the rifle.
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

Offline davec2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2014, 01:24:31 AM »
Thanks Jim. What about the sights?  Any suggestions?
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

caliber45

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2014, 03:56:36 PM »
Dave -- Beautiful work! Superb engraving! Fine fitting! ETc., etc., etc.

. . . but . . .

The grain direction through the wrist is an open invitation to a break. Would suggest next time to try to get the grain to (as close as possible) follow the wrist, not transsect it diagonally. For what that's worth . . .

paulallen, greencastle, in

Offline bama

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2014, 04:17:12 PM »
Sights for me would depend on how the rifle was going to be used. I you are going to shoot any type of traditional matches with it then the peep style back at the breech would not be a good choice. If you are going to shoot traditional matches then anything goes, so make yourself happy.

I have an original rifle that is dated 1803 the rear sight is a traditional rear with the exception that at the base even with the top of the barrel a hole has been drill through the sight blade making it a peep sight. The front sight is a nice wide silver blade that tapers to a needle point. To use the peep you have to lay down and sight right on top of the barrel. The only thing that I can guess that this was used for was maybe over the log matches as it is a very fine sight.

SO make it like you like it.
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

Offline davec2

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2014, 12:46:28 AM »
Back in May (when I last had time to work on this rifle), Cailber45 mentioned the grain direction through the wrist as a potential problem.  Every time I looked at the unfinished rifle as I passed by the bench, the grain run out started to bother me.  So rather than wait until the wrist broke one day and then try to fix it, I thought I would be pro-active and fix it before it broke.

I routed out a deep groove 3/8 inch wide and 1.25 inches tall through the entire wrist area excavating the existing inletting for the trigger, trigger plate, and rear of the trigger guard.



I then cut a straight grain splint out of a scrap of the same stock blank and cut some narrow grooves in it to allow me to squeeze the epoxy out around the splint and get it fully seated in its groove.



One last full check fit before the epoxy was mixed.



Splint epoxied in place....



After a day of curing, the trigger, trigger plate and rear of the trigger guard were re-inletted back where they came from.



If the stock breaks at the wrist after this, I'll make a new stock.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:39:23 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2014, 01:42:13 AM »
Great fix, and looking good!


      Ed
Ed Wenger

kaintuck

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Re: Rifle Number 3...Unfinished
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2014, 03:33:18 AM »
Dave2,
Thought on one aspect, SMR have the curve from the distal end on the cheek piece curve up and terminate at the front end of the BP , Lancaster types need that curve to curve up and term at the corner of the BP...it will "sweep" in a long curve.....all these things..... ;D

Tomtom says your miles ahead of him in making these rifles......so his comments are meant only to help....
Marc