Drop for a fowler

[David Rase]

Going to be building a 12g fowler soon.  On average, how much drop does one normally have?  Not familiar with fowlers all that much.
Thanks,
David

[Eric Krewson]

I am far from an expert but I assumed the measurements taken from my "try" stock should be transposed to my latest fowler project. The end result was a gun that fits me like a glove with sights(put a rear sight on for turkey hunting) that align perfectly every time I shoulder it.

[Acer Saccharum]

Rase, if I must talk to you, I will.

I have an original HVF in shop, the drop is no more than 2 1/2" at the heel. The comb is slightly rounded in profile, from heel to tip of comb. At the highest point in the arc, where your fat cheek would rest, it is parallel with the sighting plane. So no matter how much kick is generated, your cheekbone will be unscathed. 13 1/2 LOP.

[Long John]

I have a fowler in the planning stage right now.  I took the drop measurements from a rifle that I can shoot with my eyes closed - it fits me so well - and I added the height of the sights above the barrel to come up with a drop that I "think" (actually hope) will place the sighting plane of the barrel right where it is for the rifle.  I plan to make the front sight just tall enough to be just barely visible above the breach.  I think (actually hope) that it will shoot point of aim set up that way.

Wait around a year or two and I'll let you know if it works out.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

David, your question intrigued me.  So I just measured the butt stock of my own fowler - a 20 gauge PA fowler from Chambers.  This gun is very pleasant to shoot with bird, buck or ball - I use 85 grains 2Fg GOEX with ball.
Here's what I found:  Drop at heel - 3 1/2", drop at comb transition - 1 7/8", and perhaps most importantly, the pitch - when the barrel is vertical against the wall, the toe is off the floor by 3/4".

[Lucky R A]

Dave,
      From my experience most guys shoot a fowler with a bit more LOP than on a rifle, unless the gun will be used in cold weather with lots of coats etc.  On average 13-3/4 -14" for the average 6' + or - 1' male.  2-3/4-3" drop at the heel and 1-1/2-1-3/4 at the comb where the cheek rest on the comb.   As Taylor said the pitch is important  stay away from negative pitches, as the butt stock tends to bounce up off the shoulder in recoil and the gun then smacks your cheek.  If you can get the user in have them mount the gun aiming at your dominate eye (of course make sure the gun is unloaded or the lock is out of the gun) You can then quickly see how the user adjusts to the stock.  Scrunching down on the comb = comb too high. Picking head up =comb too low. Pushing head into stock = =comb too thick or need cast off, pulling head away =comb too thin.  You can start this with the user using any gun and get a good idea of what they will need  to have the gun come up right on the target. 
Best wishes --Ron--

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Great advice Ron, well put into words.

[Kermit]

Good advice, good timing. I'm just fixin' to lay out a fowling piece stock. This likely saved me some grief. Thanks for asking, Dave.

[David Rase]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I really appreciate it and it sounds like a couple of others have been stimulated by the question. 

Taylor, thanks for measuring the Chambers fowler.  I have shouldered the PA fowler several times and it is a good fit for me.  I completely forgot about that gun.  In fact, I think I have a tracing of the stock profile somewhere.  I will have to look for it.  Great comment about pitch as well.

David

[Eric Krewson]

My fowler has a 2 3/4" drop at 13.75" LOP.

[Mike Brooks]

All depends. I shoot modern guns with about 2" drop at the butt and maybe 1 1/2" at the comb. All 18the century American guns have lots more drop than that, maybe as much as 4"! After 1800 or so lots of english fowling guns have more "modern" drops.

[David Rase]

All depends. I shoot modern guns with about 2" drop at the butt and maybe 1 1/2" at the comb. All 18the century American guns have lots more drop than that, maybe as much as 4"! After 1800 or so lots of english fowling guns have more "modern" drops.

Mike,
If I was smart I would of measured your stock outline on the last fowler I inlet for you.  Hind sight is 20/20.  Sometimes even better.
David

[little joe]

Finishing one now. Its 13.5 pull and 3.75 drop Very comfrontable for me.

[jerrywh]

 Dave -- for what it's worth I don't pay much attention to what others do in this regard because they aren't me.  The gun has to fit you.  I configure mine so that I can put the gun to my shoulder with my eyes closed and when I open them it is pointed at the target. I ended up with 3 1/2" drop at the heal, almost 3/8" cast off and the pitch the same as Taylor said with 13 1/2" pull.  I recently bought a 10GA. English double hammer gun and it fits me perfectly. It has almost the exact dimensions.  I hate guns with  too little drop and too much pull. It's Impossible to hit anything with them for me.  If you copy another gun it's going to fit the guy it was made for.

[Eric Krewson]

Here is my extra fancy try stock, pretty crude but gives me very precise measurements.





BTW, I had and 1100 that I could knock down 5 quail on a covey rise with, traded it in for an 1187 that I can't hit squat with. For this reason I started from scratch for my fowler measurements.

[Dave B]

Dave I just checked the original trade fowler I have and its 2 7/8" at the heel and 2" at the comb, trigger pull is 13 3/8", 5/8"off the floor for the toe  for pitch. I like how it fits me and will be using it for my pattern for my fowler project.
[

[Mike Brooks]

 have  a german fowling gun with an incredible drop, 4 3/8" with only a 11 3/4" pull...really odd looking gun.
 Drop is a juggling act. If you are doing a gun of a specific school you may be limited in your dimensions so you can make the gun look right. If your main priority is a well fitting shooting gun then by all means make it to fit you.
  BTW, I have an english fowling gun that is ExAcTLY like the Duncan fowler in Hamilton's book. Dimensions are; 2 1/2" drop at the heel, 1 1/2 at the comb and 13 1/4" pull. Fits me well enough to be comfortable if I was to shoot it.
  Also keep in mind that pulls tended to be about an 1" shorter than what we use today. That really throws the "look" off when we a copy of a gun when you add an inch or more to the pull. I often wonder why we insist on these longer pulls today. When ever I handle an old gun with a short pull it usually fits me pretty well.

[Acer Saccharum]

We only think we need long pulls, like we 'need' long barrels.....

Some say our arms have gotten longer over the last 100 years, probably the corn-fed diet is to blame.

But you still don't need a long pull gun, even if you have long arms. This is why we have elbows, the arms adjust.




I think I am heading toward crotchety old man-isms today. It's coming, I can feel it.....

[David Rase]

I think I am heading toward crotchety old man-isms today. It's coming, I can feel it.....

Good, I will look forward to following your posts today.  Your blathering is a gift, use it wisely.

[Feltwad]

Enclosed are a couple of images of original fowlers dating from 1760-1820 which may be of some help
Feltwad

[smylee grouch]

Feltwad, that top one looks outstanding. Can you give us any more info on it?

[Feltwad]

The top one is an English sxs  in 20 bore with 30 inch Damascus barrels maker is most likely a provincial maker no name on the gun but Birmingham proof  date approx 1815- 1825. enclosed is a  close up image of the action

Feltwad



Gun No 4


Gun No 2 A sxs French  game gun in 20bore

[Mike Brooks]

Interesting wire work on #4, I have never seen anything like it on an English gun. Do you think the wire is original to the gun?

What's the story on gun #3?

[Feltwad]

Mike

This gun is not original ,all the others on the image are original it was built by me in 1970 taking from and original wire inlay of a English sporting gun that I restored for a Friend .
Feltwad

[Mike Brooks]

You do some fine wire work!

Still wondering about the wire on #4.......Original or later addition do you think?