working steel?

[BobBean]

I was curious as to what the process is to hammer out a tang stem to widen it just a bit?  I have a pre inlet stock and a tang that is just a tad too small in width.  Can I hammer it to fix this or is it a complicated thing to do?  Ive never worked with steel prior.

Thanks in advance

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Bob it can be done with a ball/peen hammer. Peen the underside so as to push metal in the direction you need it. you can practice on a piece of scrap first but you should have no problem as long as you have a solid surface to set it on such as an anvil. The tang is probably soft but if it refuses to move with reasonable peening being applied then anneal it.

[Acer Saccharum]

Usually the tangs are some malleable steel. Support the tang on an anvil or a heavy block of steel. Tap with a large hammer until you get the spread you like. Steel spreads in all directions under the hammer, so it will lengthen and widen as it thins.

[kaintuck]

Watch the face of the hammer you use!!!!
A smooth face will give smooth results.....
Marc

[Mike Brooks]

I'd heat it up red hot if you have to spread it very far.

[David Rase]

Usually the tangs are some malleable steel. Support the tang on an anvil or a heavy block of steel. Tap with a large hammer until you get the spread you like. Steel spreads in all directions under the hammer, so it will lengthen and widen as it thins.

To avoid steel spread in all directions, use a cross peen hammer and you can control the spread. 
David

[Stophel]

The peening is only going to work at the tail end of the tang, and only if you can flare it out evenly on both sides.  If the inlet is too wide in its entirety all the way up to the barrel, then you just need to fill the gap with wood and re-inlet, since the tang can't be any wider than the top barrel flat right at the breech.  Well, I guess it could be, but it really, really, really shouldn't!   

[BobBean]

Thanks to all for the input.

[LRB]

  How about removing maybe 1/16" or so off the tang surface, then brazing or welding on a suitably sized top plate over the real tang? A cheesy approach perhaps, but just a thought.

[BobBean]

I only need about a 64th as the inlet for some reason widens a bit. Maybe it wiggled a bit in the router?  My tang came with the rice barrel and I really don't want to use a different one.  I just got this one all fit just perfectly.  I would imagine it would not require much hammering and the wide area in the inlet is only 3/4" towards the end of the inlet.  I'm determined to have this rifle built clean and tight.  My prior guns I have tried to build more as relics showing some wear and age.  This one I have paid a fair amount of attention to getting a really nice piece of figured maple for.  It should be a beauty.

The great thing about my rifles is that they are all true Bean rifles though hopefully I can own an original some day if I'm lucky.

Bob Bean

[kaintuck]

but...you ARE a Bean...so, they all are bean rifles now!

[jerrywh]

Weren't bean rifles kind of sloppy anyway??

[Clark Badgett]

For a gap that thin, I would glue in a small piece of maple veneer or even a thin shaving, re-inlet and move on.

[JCKelly]

All the machined breech plugs these days will be made of that lovely 12L14

You may need to soften it a bit before you spread it out with a hammer. Right now it is rather thoroughly cold worked & may not tolerate much more deformation.

One may soften this steel a bit by heating until it just starts to glow, indoors in mediocre lighting, then cool however suits you.

All you need do is remove the effects of cold work - the original 12L14 bar would have been cold drawn to make it nice & round to fit a Love Machine collet, and to further improve machineability. 

I myself have never cold worked 12L14, someone around here must have that experience, which would be helpful to hear.

Personally I do not like this brittle steel & would not have a piece of it in my shop. Yes, I am entirely alone in this view. 's OK guys, I know you all love this stuff & that's the way it is.

[Canute Rex]

A quick and dirty way to get the annealing right: Heat it until a magnet won't pull on it. Then stick it in a bucket of wood ashes immediately and let it sit for an hour or so. Repeat. You want it to cool slowly.

Use a cross peen hammer with the line of the peen parallel to the length of the tang. That will minimize the lengthening and maximize the widening.

You may be able to get 1/16" cold hammering, but not more. Use a mirror polished surface to hammer on and you'll save yourself some finishing time and metal thickness. Whatever irregularities you have on the face of your "anvil" (whatever it might be) will be transferred to your piece.

Good luck!

[Bob Roller]

 Jim,
I use 12L14 for small screws.I tell others that if it weren't for the heat I could use my finger nail instead of a lathe tool to turn these little screws.
I made a couple of "Patent"breeches a while back out of 8620 that was purpose bought and it machines easily with common high speed lathe tools. Mills,drills,turns and threads with no special efforts.
Ed Rayl said he makes barrels from 8620.

Bob Roller

[moleeyes36]

Charlie Burton (FCI Barrels) advertises on his website that he makes his barrels from 12L14 steel.

[Chris Treichel]

Canute mentioned this but a picture is worth a thousand words...


(ok, I was lazy, all those arrows should be the same size)

Ball peen: moves/expands metal in all directions

Cross peen and Straight peen move/expand metal in two directions... This is the hammer you want to use to widen your tang...

[Dphariss]

Charlie Burton (FCI Barrels) advertises on his website that he makes his barrels from 12L14 steel.

Yes it is curious isn't it?
This appeared in the old Buckskin Report back about 1978 in response to an ongoing discussion of steels used in ML gun barrels.



Dan

[Bob Roller]

 There is still a mind set that says (A) It won't happen to me and (B)you can't blow up a modern barrel with black powder.

Bob Roller

[jerrywh]

  There is no fool proof barrel steel. Some fools are just to stupid or careless.
 Question. Has anybody ever blown up a getz barrel?  It can be done but I never heard of it.  I contend that you have to do something pretty dumb to blow up a modern muzzle loading barrel.
  Even weatherby barrels blow up now and then so what are we to do.

[Bob Roller]

 The Weatherby operates under different rules than a black powder rifle.
 
Bob Roller

[Acer Saccharum]

We are getting off topic. Bob was just talking about expanding the tang...not the burst strength of the barrel steel. 

[Dphariss]

 There is no fool proof barrel steel. Some fools are just to stupid or careless.
 Question. Has anybody ever blown up a getz barrel?  It can be done but I never heard of it.  I contend that you have to do something pretty dumb to blow up a modern muzzle loading barrel.
  Even weatherby barrels blow up now and then so what are we to do.

I submit that a barrel of decent wall thinkness in 4150 cannot be damaged with BP and cannot be burst regardless if the spacing the the bullet etc. If a m1 garand from 1942 (4150) can be fired with dirt in the bore and only bulge 3" from the muzzle how is BP going to blow one up?
With grey powder many things are possible since by UNDERLOADING it can be converted to an H.E. and it WILL blow up anything.
Even hot rolled GB quality 1137 which is inferior to 4150 is ectremely tough to damage with extreme overloads of SMOKELESS in brass suppository guns.
I can dig up some quotes from the ASSRA on leaded screw stock barrels too. But its pointless since everyone automatically assumes that its the SHOOTER at fault when in reality its material related in breechloaders too. Like the Remington "problem" with 1144M shotgun barrels.
Remember that the Springfield Rifle Musket IRON barrel was proved with a 200 gr of Musket powder with a Minie spaced 2" from the powder. Or so I have read. If they failed and it was proven it failed in a WELD the welder was charged for the barrel.

Dan

[Dennis Glazener]

I believe the original question has been answered, lets move on. I am locking this thread.
Dennis