Author Topic: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.  (Read 92995 times)

Offline WadePatton

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Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« on: August 29, 2013, 05:41:07 PM »
Could someone offer a bit of guidance on hand-stitched rasps as they apply to the woods and shapes we are concerned with making.  The performance and price of the hand-stitched jobbies appears to be reasonable.

Thanks much.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 09:32:27 AM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

Liogier

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 05:50:16 PM »
If we are talking about the old production of Nicholson, the one that used to be made in USA rather than Brazil (or Mexico ?), the closest comparison would be according to me :
Nicholson #49 ------------- Liogier 10" CabinetMaker rasp, grain #7
Nicholson #50-------------- Liogier 10" CabinetMaker rasp, grain #9

For a given shape and length of file, you would tipically find 3 different "cuts" (bastard, second-cut and smooth), for a given shape and length of a hand-stitched rasp, you can find around 10 different size of "grains" within a scale going from 1 (super extra coarse) to 15 (extremely fine). Here for example the case of the Cabinet Maker rasp :




Here is a scaled picture of the 15 different stitching grains :



Advantages of LEFT HAND rasps: rasps are stitched on a different angles for left/right handed users.
This one (amongst many others) difference with machine made rasp whose teeth are aligning the axis of the tool. We do that because while rasping you most of the time don't make push strokes right in the axis of the tool but slightly on one side (or the other if left-handed). This improves the aggressivity of the teeth and also help prevent them from clogging.


If you are interested in craftsmanship skills, you may like this video showing how I produce hand-stitched rasps :



Regards,

Noel Liogier
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:49:43 PM by rich pierce »

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 07:15:37 PM »
One option is that you can make your own rasps.

These were made for smoothing the background prior to scraping. Teeth raised with a chisel, then the rasp hardened.
The one on the left, the leaf shape, is my all-time favorite. It's a workhorse of leveling background after relief carving.



(some of the geezers have already seen these, so my apologies, this is for those who haven't  ;))
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:50:19 PM by rich pierce »
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Liogier

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 07:31:39 PM »
For those who want to try and produce a rasp, here is a close-up picture of the home-made punches we use to raise the teeth. We call them "grain of barley" because of their shapes.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:50:41 PM by rich pierce »

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 07:55:11 PM »
Noel, I've made different shape punches to make a different tooth profile. Those punches you show will raise a sharp pointed tooth.

A rounded bottom punch will raise a round-top tooth, almost like scrapers covering the bottom of the rasp. Maybe then it would be called a file instead of a rasp.

here is file made with round top teeth; it makes a very smooth cut:


It's set in hot melt glue to hold it while I raise the teeth.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:51:33 PM by rich pierce »
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Liogier

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 08:15:30 PM »
I do agree. Round punches will make round teeth (we call them "fish scale rasp") : they are much less efficient in terms of aggressivity but gives a smoother finish. They are usualy more used on soft stones, rather than hard woods.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 06:25:32 PM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Gunsmith rasp review
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2013, 08:02:37 PM »
Ron Scott reviews Liogier's Gunsmith rasp:

Quote
I had ordered four Sapphire Grade Rasps from Noel at Liogier. My current Project uses a highly figured stock of Bastone walnut with tearing grain. The 3grain 10 inch Cabinet Makers Rasp did a fine job removing the bulk of the wood in shaping the butt stock.
The 8 inch 8 and 12 grain Cabinet Makers rasps did very well at smoothing and refining. The novelty rasp in my order is the Gunsmith rasp, which is twelve inches long by about 5/8 wide in 7 grain. This rasp, like the cabinet makers is a half round cross section. I found the Gunsmith rasp perfect for shaping the comb-wrist intersect and cutting the hollows down into the butt stock. In addition it was very handy for shaping portions of the lock panel.  This is a rasp I wish I had available decades ago.
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Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Larry Luck

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 01:21:20 AM »
This is an interesting thread.  The video on rasp making is well worth a watch.

Larry Luck

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 01:45:16 AM »
Iwasaki review:

Bought a 10" Isakawa fine cut file from Woodcraft.  Wish I had known about these files before buying the Nicholson 49 and 50 rasps.  Going back later today to get a half round super fine.  These are really interesting.  Tooth pattern is different and they are super aggressive in that you don't apply any significant pressure on them to cut.  If you try to apply pressure the file just stalls.   I was cutting the end grain for the butt plate in a piece of very curly sugar maple.  Not a problem, takes it off nice and easy.  The Nicholsens kind of chew at it by comparison.  I hope the promise they show is works out on the rest of the stock as well.  Going with the grain it was cutting nice clean surface.  They come in medium cut, fine and superfine. 

Anyone else tried these and know how they wear?

I started using them about a year ago.  Nice clean finish almost as clean as a scraper.  The most useful ones are the larger ones in the medium cut.  The fine and extra fine are hard to tell apart by their cut on hard maple.  I have a half round but haven't used it yet.  I doubt they will dull very fast as they are very hard.  I like that they cut all the way to the edge.  Use a glove on the forward hand until you learn how aggressive you can go. 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 06:30:03 AM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 11:43:43 PM »
It finally happened.  The 2014 Oregon Gunmakers Fair has come and went.  With that said I must report on the results of the French hand stitched rasp-off.  Not to be outdone, we had not one but 7 hand stitched rasps in the lineup.  They consisted of an Auriou #5 and #10, and Liogier rasps in #12, 8, 7, 4 and the covenanted 49 prototype.   

Since the original objective was to test drive the #49 prototype, we lead off with that rasp.  The first thing the group of volunteers noticed was how sharp the tool is.  My God, that thing is scary sharp.  While rasping on a stock blank of sugar maple the general conscientious was that if you tried to remove wood with the same amount of pressure that you would apply to the venerable Nicholson #49 rasp, the Liogier would stall out.  Heaven forbid if your forward hand keep moving when the rasp dug in.  In other words, there was a learning curve to using this rasp.  Once one learned to use a lighter touch, the rasp performed as designed.  You can remove the same amount of material with the Liogier as with the Nicholson but with a lot less effort.  Most of our competitors also felt that the #49 Liogier prototype was one stitch too course. 

We noted no difference in using either the Sapphire line, which we had 2 of, or the standard finish.  The #10 Auriou was a very desirable stitch for finishing a surface.  You could go directly to a scraper after using the #10.

The overall favorite was the #7 stitched Modellers rasp.  Most felt that this rasp was a lot easier to use.  Due to its narrower design, our operators felt less resistance and more control.  Being narrower also made the rasp more versatile. 

I will post a photo of the 7 rasps for comparison once I get the photo downloaded.
David

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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rasp Options, stitch or grain and such.
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2015, 01:47:52 AM »
From Taylor Sapergia:
Quote
I have a couple of rasps that I really love to work with.  They cut hard maple fast and clean, with lots of control.  The first is a half round that must be very much like a Nicholson 49 or 50...perhaps someone here can fill me in on that.  It is made by Black Diamond in Canada.






This second one is just a magic thing!  It is a rat tailed rasp about 3/8" dia and about 12" long.  It seems to stay sharp forever and again, cuts wonderfully well without the slightest tearing.  It is made by Nicholson.



« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:52:59 PM by rich pierce »
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.