Is this a New England (big bore) rifle?

[DaveM]

I came cross this rather plain interesting rifle (with some obvious condition issues) and hoping for some thoughts on its history from some more knowledgeable than me.  I assume this is a New England rifle?   I am hoping maybe this patchbox finial is a bit unique that someone may recognize a maker?  This has a patent breech and a 30-1/2 inch barrel (I believe original length excluding the patent breech) large .62 caliber rifled bore with about small rounded grooves (about 20 grooves, no flats between grooves).  The rifling is spiral and not straight.  Lock is W. Ketland & Co.  The gun is heavy and well built rifle. The butt is 1-3/4 wide.  Would this have been a hunting gun at this large caliber?  Thanks for any thoughts.

[tallbear]

While I can't name a maker it's defiantly New England. The tit on the front of the trigger guard is a dead giveaway!!


Mitch

[Bob Roller]

 A 20 gauge rifle with polygrooves.Sounds like a serious hunting gun to me.
On another subject,I have had inquiries about Hawken cap locks and the question
is :"Do you cut the lock plates for the bolster"? The answer is no,I don't cut them for
a bolster or for a drum. I might make a few more Hawken locks but am not sure about
that yet.If I do,I'll post here.

Bob Roller

[JV Puleo]

Its certainly a New England gun. The W Ketland lock has to date between about 1801 and 1831... which is a pretty large window. It looks to be converted from flint, but it is reasonable to assume many unused flint locks were converted at the time  they were used, if after about 1825 they could be either flint or percussion. That said, I'd' date the gun around 1816-1820 though I freely admit I could be off ten years in either direction. As to the bore, they aren't commonly that large, but it isn't unique. Almost all NE flint rifles are around .54 caliber and I have a signed Maynard half-stock with a T. Ketland lock that is .69 caliber (with rifling still clearly showing).

Virtually none of the features of NE rifles will help you identify a maker... (there are some rare exceptions but even these are problematical.) The fact is, nearly all were made in Worcester county, likely all the makers knew each other and were familiar with each other's work and probably all of them bought their fittings from the same suppliers. There is no reason to assume they made their own patch boxes & trigger guards though some certainly may have. If they did, they rarely differed from the prevailing styles.

[DaveM]

Mitch and JV Puleo, thanks for your input.  JV, you provide excellent detail in your post, and I appreciate that. I wondered whether it could be a militia rifle from the War of 1812 era (guns for the effort I believe were produced at least through 1814).  I suppose no way to really know.  Your notes about the close knit group of makers in that county is veryinteresting and sounds worthy of a book someday! 

[JV Puleo]

There is a long standing, and to my mind very creditable, theory that 90% or more of the flintlock NE rifles were made for militia rifle companies or for individual members of rifle companies. I have two thus marked and have owned at least two others - not to mention having seen a dozen or more that were beyond my means. Relatively speaking, NE rifles are far less common than Kentucky/Pennsylvania rifles although there is no reason to believe that New Englanders were less likely to own a gun... By 1800 or so, most of Massachusetts was clear... maybe 80% of the land (where today its about 80% wooded). There simply was nothing to hunt, especially with .54 caliber rifles. The only remaining large game animals were in northern New England but none of those states have any strong heritage of rifle making in the flint era.

Percussion caps were readily available by 1825-26 and enforcement of the obligation to provide your own arms for militia service ended in 1832. Right around that time competitive target shooting took root in NE as a major passtime and simultaneously the bore size of the rifles dropped to around .40. There are a few "made as percussion militia rifles"... I had a nearly unfired one years ago by Henry Pratt, but 99% of the percussion NE rifles have the smaller bore (in the .38-.44 range), suitable for target work and the smaller game that was still available but nowhere near large enough to accept the government ammunition that had been part of the bargain when privately owned rifles were required for militia duty.

[James Wilson Everett]

Look at the lock panel just behind the percussion cock.  A flintlock cock almost always had a large shoulder or step on the inside that would act as a stop when it contacted the top surface of the lock plate.  So, if this lock was originally installed as a flintlock on the gun, there would be a cutout of the wood in the area behind the cock to give clearance for the shoulder.  Also, a close inspection of the top of the lock plate in this area would show a denting or peening if a flintlock cock was originally installed on the lock.

Here is a photo of a German gun with a rather large cutout area in the lock panel behind the cock.  Inspect the gun to look for this feature and let us know the result.



Here is a photo of the inside of the German lock.  Do you see the shoulder or step on the inside surface of the cock?



Jim

[DaveM]

Jim and JV Puleo, here are some photos at the lock.  There is a notch formed in the stock and I looked with a magnifying glass and there is definitely a small dent / hole on this top flat where it would be struck.  The current percussion hammer does not rest on the top edge here.  I can't get the lock bolts to budge at all, I don't think the lock has been off of this gun.  Also took a photo of the butt tang and release.

[James Wilson Everett]

Dave,

Great photos!  I would say that this is a very good indication that the gun was originally made as a flintlock and then later converted to percussion.  This shows that the gun had a very long life, and hopefully productive life.  It certainly adds to the history of the piece.

Jim

[JV Puleo]

I'd have to agree it started life as a flintlock and a fairly high quality one too, judging from the hook breech though the breech plug itself must have been very shallow. That, in itself, proves little as I've seen both flint and early percussion guns with breech plugs that could only have been two or three threads deep.

[Old Ford2]

Hello Dave
Interesting find you have there.
As an aid to release the seized lock bolts.
If you make up a mixture of 50/50 acetone & automatic transmission fluid and apply it with a syringe or eye dropper, but first take your booster cables & battery ( scary huh ) attach the ground to the tumbler, with the positive holding a copper wire ( solid 8 gauge, try to cut the tip of the wire as flat as possible) just touch the lock bolt and lock,  it will heat up locally but not hurt the lock or stock, also it will not arc or weld.
BUT you must use COPPER only.
After you have heated the lock bolt add a drop or two of the acetone/ ATF mixture.
One or two efforts should release you lock bolt.
You may need help to control the booster cables from touching together.
I use this method often where I cannot use a torch to pre-heat a seized screw or bolt.
Good luck!
Fred

[DaveM]

Thanks guys - JV Puleo, yes the quality of fit and finish on this piece probably exceeds many rifles I have seen. Despite its current condition it was certainly made with great precision and care.  I am considering a proper repair of the comb of the butt, at least, to give it proper form.  The forestock appears that it was likely a fullstock originally, and that is a tempting restoration also but not sure.  What do you think? Looks like it may be cherry wood.

Hi Fred - thanks for your suggestion.  I need to chew on that one, it kind of scares me - I don't want to blow it up ! Sounds like a unique approach though!

[JV Puleo]

Half stocks were just as popular as full stocks. Many NE rifles have a half stock with a wooden under rib, though I don't see from your pictures where it would have attached. They usually used the same little pin bosses we associate with full stocks so when missing, its often presumed it was a full stock rifle. I have the feeling yours is shortened, though a very long time ago. But... the heavy barrel may preclude this and short NE rifles are not unknown (I saw one only last weekend).