The Art Of The FireLock

[Benedict]

The thread on Most Influential  Person mentioned John Bivins book. I assume that he was talking about "The Art Of The Firelock".  I have heard about this book for decades but never have seen that it was published.  Does anyone know anything about the book?  Does it exist?  If so where can I get a copy?

Bruce

[California Kid]

I think George Shumway has the manuscript. John and George, I believe had some sort of disagreement
and nothing ever happened. I think George still has it or it belongs to Johns estate. Not sure

[PINYONE]

This is what John Bivins told me- He had completed 3 Volumes and sold them to Shumway. Thinking they would be published. John told me to call Shumway and i did- he said that they were incomplete. I said that I had never seen any thing that John did incomplete. Shumway said its not up for opinion.Shumway has had the manuscripts for Years. Shumway should be ashamed not to let someone else publish this work. I wish some body in PA would get Johns work and do it justice as he was a great guy and a good friend to me. He is still missed and I believe will never be replaced. I cherish the many times I stayed at his home in salem and the best evenings of Long Rifle talks. My book was signed  by him stating. that I was a fine Student of American Longrifles. If I could go back I would have stayed much longer 2 years went by fast.Through John I became good friends with Wallace Gusler and cherish my many at the Guslers, I have always felt welcomed and southern hospitality. Cherish your friends we are here only so long- The Great Pinyone

[Dave B]

I had the pleasure to know John Bivins if even for a very short time. He had told me that he sold the manuscripts to a publisher. Not directly to Shumway. Shumway purchased them from this publisher. That was my understanding of the situation. I to was told to contact Shumway who declined to comment on the subject.
I feel that it is sad that a work that should be published is not, based on water long passed under the bridge. I always speculated that Shumway wanted to suppress the information lest he loose sales on his book Recreating the American longrifle. Its not an un heard of practice to buy up a rival product and suppress it to allow your own sales to move a head. Again we speculate and this is not profitable. Welcome to the real world.  

I checked to see if there were any references to other works in the back of the builder alluded to in Canada and find John Bivins as credited as one along with many more. It is always easy to speculate and without a copy of   Johns Manuscript we will never know but it is no small under taking to produce a book as our Canadian friend has done and I do not feel that it is really appropriate to make this kind of a statement with out  solid evidence to back it up.

Having met this builder on more than one occasion I have found him eager to discuss rifles original as well as contemporary. He likes, as most teachers do, to discuss the  techniques to help produce better reproductions. This irritated me at first meeting but he was trying to educate me and a honnest critique I have found most helpful. I think he means well and would not wantonly plagiarize John's
work. Again My Opinion for what its worth.

[PINYONE]

This topic is real interesting- if I had not John Bivins for 25 solid years, I might believe anything. If any one on here thinks that John was less than a perfectionist then you did not know him. He never wrote anything "incomplete". The problem with Shumway is we are all being cheated of the most in depth work ever done on how to build and History that is involved. I never read the published book because of what I was told. As for credits everyone who publishes anything fills it up with credits to make it seem more Factual and Credited. I for one have been looking for a Copy of Johns work for 25 years now. If anyone cares call Shumway and ask when it will be released. Put pressure, get the true John Bivins manuscript. Been long enough now. the great Pinyone

[keweenaw]

There could be a wide variety of reasons the book(s) weren't published.  One might simply be the cost of publication vs. the reasonably expected sales price and market. Most publishers are unwilling to publish a book that can only profitably be sold at $100 plus unless there is a very strong market at that price.  Because the books that Shumway has published are the only thing that makes what most of us do possible, I am loath to criticize him without information.

It is, however, a good lesson in why if you're going to publish a book, almost any book, that you need an agent.  While an agent gets a cut of the price of the book, they also know all the schemes and scams used by publishers to maximize their profits at the expense of the author. An agent will probably never advise selling a book outright and I would think that in any publication contract there should be a reserve clause that if a work isn't published in some time frame the rights revert.

Tom

[Jim Chambers]

Dorothy Shumway sent a copy of part of the manuscript to  me and another part to Mark Silver year before last to get our opinion on whether to publish it or not.  I told her the information and research that John had done should definitely be published because there was a world of information there that has never been published before,lots of new info.  I also told her I didn't feel there would be enough sales of the book to justify the cost of publishing, but it would be a shame not to make all the research John had done available to everyone.  Much of the information on actual construction techniques needs to be updated because we have gained a lot of knowledge and new techniques and rediscovered many old techniques in the past 30 years.
The last information I had from Dorothy was that she was going ahead with the publication and had asked Mark Silver to help with updating parts of the manuscript.  In talking with Mark he says he has not been contacted by her  about doing this, and wouldn't have time right now to do it anyway.  So, I sincerely hope that the book will be published at some point.  But, I'm not holding my breath that it will happen in the near future.  Personally, I would not be disappointed if she just published it just as John had written it.  Who cares that some of the sources for stain, finish, etc. are no longer valid and some tasks are done differently today.  Overall, it would be a fantastic book just as it was written by John.
Maybe if everyone calls Shumway Publishing requesting the book it will spur her on to get the thing in print.

[Tony Clark]

Mr. Chambers, I appreciate this additional information. Thank you. Regards, TC

[Benedict]

I think that the book SHOULD be published just as written.  Bivins was too good to change it.  I will buy a copy, regardless of price.

Bruce

[PINYONE]

I agree with Jim Chambers every contact Shumway and request a copy. We are large in number- as for what he wrote leave it just as it is, I still read my 1968 Long rifles of North Carolina and its still good. Who is to say that he was wrong just because there are different techniques- look at his rifles and think Boy I wish I could do that. Mr. Silver is really good, let him do his thing and just publish the book, $#*! i will take 2. The Great Pinyone

[George F.]

I personally did not know John Bivins. From talking to Jim Chambers about him he left me with an impression of a man of great talents, and not limited to long rifles. He left us with awe and respect of a  man that remains a legend today. It is a shame his manuscript has not been published. Every one has been patiently waiting for this, and if the book is under $150, then they will not have to worry about selling them.  If it is published, I hope they don't use the same publisher/ printer the other fellow that everybody seems to be talking about. My book's photos are unreconizable...   Geo.

[JCKelly]

Yeah, I recall Bivins asked me to write the metallurgy part of something he was doing with Shumway. I would write it quite differently were I doing it today, so it is OK with me if Whoever skips my part. Would be glad to re-write a Civilized Version if Whoever wants. Think I ran across my written manuscript a while back, probably pitched it. In the mid-1980's there was not much good info on muzzle loader metallurgy around. Still a bit of misinformation out there, but also pretty good knowledge on most everything but barrels. That last subject is hopeless.

[Mad Monk]

Shumway had originally intended to publish "The Art Of The Firelock".
Then he left a few of his friends read the manuscript.  They pointed out that there were several errors in the book that needed to be re-written.  Which John Bivens refused to consider.  Shumway then put a stop to the project.

[Dave B]

I will sign up for a set right now with out even seeing it. I have all of Johns aritcles from Rifle magazine and others in a binder. This would round out the collection of Johns work. I will call her to help push the point home. Better yet a nice thankyou card.  I like the fact that they have republished several of the out of print books for us that us youger crowd didn't have copies of yet. I only just this last year got my own copy of  Rifles of North Carolina by John. I am not a book collector for the sake of collecting but for the information as it relates to rifles and gun making.

[Greg Field]

I am nobody in the ML world, but I am a professional editor and an author of 8 books. I would be happy to assist in assessing this manuscript. I have done this hundreds of times with success in the enthusiast press. Bivins is a hero of mine. I would be respectful.

[Ron Scott]

I think Jim Chambers has given us a pretty good understanding of the current situation regarding publishing Johns book.  I am in agreement that any positive imput we can give Dorothy would be helpful. I would go out on a limb and order ten copies.

[PINYONE]

Lets get behind this- Greg Field should know better than the rest of us- I would say if 1500 copies were made they wouldn't last a Day. Greg contact them and post your finding here- let them know we are tired of waiting. Pinyone

[Benedict]

I just got off the phone with Shumways (Dorothy, I think) and expressed my interest.  She told me the same thing the Jim Chambers has told us.  They do not have any immediate plans to publish the book.  One of the main reasons is that they feel that it needs editing and that Jim Chambers and Mark Silver are the ones to do that editing.  I understand that both of them are busy.  If not them, I hope that someone can do the editing because it would be a shame to have this work disappear.

Bruce

[Tony Clark]

Lets get behind this- Greg Field should know better than the rest of us- I would say if 1500 copies were made they wouldn't last a Day. Greg contact them and post your finding here- let them know we are tired of waiting. Pinyone

I would say that if they  could sell 1500 copies in a year, it would be published in a hurry! That is the reality of it. Regards, TC

[flintriflesmith]

I am willing to hazard a guess that the photography is at least as much of a problem as the text. Ten and twenty year old film images (negatives or prints) will be very difficult to work with and the cost of either re-shooting or Photoshopping the images would be staggering. I bet there are images of work in progress that would be impossible to recreate because they show how John did it on a particular day. Some of his articles in Rifle Magazine, especially those on antiques restoration, will show you what I mean -- once the project was completed there is no way to go back and capture a picture of a step in the process.

If pictures of antiques are involved, tracking them down to bring the images up to current standards might be impossible as well. Every generation, with a few regretable exceptions, of rifle book has marked a step forward in the number and quality of photos. Dillon, Kauffman, Kindig, Shumway, etc.

Gary

[PINYONE]

I respect Gary' point of view but disagree- I have have Kodak slides 40 years old and they still print out good.  John was a stickler for great photography, I never saw anything that he did that wasn't grand. I would rather have a copy just as it is. One reason I believe it is very negligent on Shumway's  part that in 25 years even while John was still with us - it was never published- If it needed editing John could have done it. He personally told me that he had no idea why it wasn't in print- I believe Shumway's should offer it to someone else. Others included myself would get it published. It would be costly- but could be done as Eric Kettenburg pre sold the Rice barrels. It would be a good tribute to John. Excuses to me are lame , enough time- The Great Great Pinyone

[Greg Field]

Without reservation, I, too, respect Gary's point of view.

Having never seen the manuscript, I cannot comment on its worth. It is possible that it is of the absolute highest quality. It is also possible that it is outdated in some way that I cannot know and that perhaps everyone is being respectful of Mr. Bivins's memory to discourage the publication. Believe me, please, please; I am not casting aspersions. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Bivins, his talent as a gun builder, and his talents as an author. It's just that I have been in the business a while and have seen this dynamic at work. For those of you who are in the know: If that is the case, I would certainly let it all die.

If that is not the case, I'd encourage you to pursue publication. Bivins's name will ensure profitability, in my opinion. If any of you involved would like any advice, I would happily donate the time in Mr. Bivins's memory.

[JCKelly]

I second what Benedict said Feb 5. Just ordered a book from Shumway, and Dorothy recognized my name as the guy who wrote the chapter on metallurgy.

It does sound like it comes down to finding some one or two people with the knowledge and time to put Bivins' material together and edit it. Seems to me there must somewhere be a couple of recently retired guys with whom Bivins was close, and who have the knowledge and time to get this valuable work finished.

[flintriflesmith]

I respect Gary' point of view but disagree- I have have Kodak slides 40 years old and they still print out good.  John was a stickler for great photography, I never saw anything that he did that wasn't grand. ...- The Great Great Pinyone

Piny,
In my experience color slides are a different animal. 

I had heard that the photos for Art of the Firelock were black & white and taken by using a moving light to "paint" the subject. If so they will have the same flat, multiple reflection, look that so often hides detail me would love to see. No professional fine object or art  photography I know of is done that way anymore unless the conditions in the field are so bad it is the only choice.

Gary