Barrel inletting question

[greymount]

I am in the process of inletting a strait barrel on a pre-carved stock.  I have everything in the breach area inletted correctly as indicated by the line of inletting black on the breach formed by the barrel end.  However, in the barrel channel I have no visible inletting black marks.  This tells me that the barrel is not touching the bottom of the stock channel. The barrel does feel tight in the barrel channel. What should I do to have the barrel flats touching the bottom channel correctly? I am not sure where the wood should come off the barrel channel to complete this task?  I don't want to remove wood from the wrong area and make a bigger problem. The stock does have slight warping. 

[Jim Filipski]

Greymount,
I find it hard to imagine the barrel inletted at the breech with it not touching any place in the channel
Get some inletting black over the bottom 3 flats and then lay in in place keeping it up agaisnt the breech face Press it in with your hands or gently tap with a piece of wood. It's got to show some high spots somewhere.
It's in the wood when about 80 % of the channel shows some black.
Just because it's a precaved stock don't be fooled that the barrel is pretty much inlet from the start. Some you work hard & some you get lucky ( but not often)
Jim

[George F.]

You have to be hitting at least two spots some where. Like JW states use inletting black, or candle soot on the bottom three flats on the entire barrel. It could be hitting the the beveled flats and not on the bottom, keeping it from going deeper. If that's the cause, then you'll have to remove the effected  wood from that or those flats. You'll know right away when you use the transfer color (inletting black or candle soot) on the entire 3 bottom flats at one time. Tap the barrel in the barrel channel with a block of wood or a wooden mallet with the transfer color on the barrel to leave color transfer on the wood.   ...Geo.








i

[Seven]

Sometimes you can get a false reading at the breech end.  If you are taking the barrel out of the stock by the muzzle end then the breech end will actually go down into the channel more and make more contact with the wood there.  You can then make the mistake of seeing the inletting black there and continue to take wood out resulting in a big mistake.  Ask me how I know...  -Chad

[Ky-Flinter]

....... The barrel does feel tight in the barrel channel..... 

Maybe the wood is tight along the 2 vertical flats of the barrel....  holding the barrel up so the 3 bottom flats don't touch?

-Ron

[Long John]

Grey,

It takes surprizingly little wood to hold a barrel up off the bottom of the channel.  I like to use soot from a wick in a kerosene lamp to black the bottom of the barrel.  Since you are using a parallel side barrel, blacken the barrel, put it into the channel and slide it back and forth a little.  Then pull the barrel out nice and carefully.  The barrel will show where the black has been rubbed off and the stock will show what has been supporting it.  Sometimes its just a tiny hump. 

With a machine let-in stock it is often a case of the side flats not being truly verticle and the barrel is getting stopped where the bottom of the side flat is hitting the slightly angled side flat of the stock.  If that is the case you will see that the blacking has been rubbed off the side flat to oblique flat corners and a black line in the sotck.  Get a magnifying glassand go over the stock until you find the culprit.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Jim Filipski]

Just keep in mind the strange nature of most "pre-inlet stocks" if it also has the lock pre inlet then the inletting of the barrel has to be determined by the pre inletting of the lock! This is a fact that  has to be taken into consideration based on where the touch hole should be........ . In a precarve inlet stock the lock inlet determines the placement of the barrel not vice -versa ( as in a gun built from scratch!)
The depth of the barrel in the stock as well as the position of where the breech should fall will have to be adjusted accordingly because most pre-inlet stocks don't give you "fudge room" in the lock mortice area

As I always have said in my book it is harder to set the positions of the components in a pre inlet stock properly then one done from scratch....period! In a pre inlet  stock the lock inlet determines everything So you at it's mercy! However if your doing a gun from scratch the barrel determines everything! IMHO
Jim

[Jim Filipski]

Hey Greymount
 How you making out?

[greymount]

I am still working at it (4 + hours) and still have not gotten any soot on the lower three barrel channels.  However, I do have the soot imprint at the breach and on side and bottom flat of the breach area but no where else.  Could it be that the lower three barrel channels could be slightly lower at the breach area than the rest of the stock area? When I look at the barrel from the nose, the barrel appears flush in the stock and no gaps. I wish I could get some soot lines somewhere so that I would know where the problem is.  Maybe I will draw file the barrel again to see if that helps.  If something is holding it up, it must be very small.

[Jim Filipski]

I am still working at it (4 + hours) and still have not gotten any soot on the lower three barrel channels.  However, I do have the soot imprint at the breach and on side and bottom flat of the breach area but no where else.  Could it be that the lower three barrel channels could be slightly lower at the breach area than the rest of the stock area? When I look at the barrel from the nose, the barrel appears flush in the stock and no gaps. I wish I could get some soot lines somewhere so that I would know where the problem is.  Maybe I will draw file the barrel again to see if that helps.  If something is holding it up, it must be very small.

Greymount I'm having a problem visualzing this ....could you post some quick digital pixs so we can see your situation?
Also you never said if the lock is pre-inlet  (?)

[George F.]

Okay, I'll give this another shot. Do you have a C-clamp? Try placing the barrel in the stock up against the breech. Next tap the barrel with a hammer and a block of wood. Next get a block of wood about 4- 8 inches long you can pad the ramrod channel. Then use the clamp to draw the barrel into the barrel channel. You can start at the muzzle and see what you get. Don't over tighten the clamp, just overly snug, you don't want to crack or split the stock, go easy if it feels tight. If you don't have a C-clamp or no clamps, don't pull your hair out if you still have some, you can use the vice. But you have to make sure the barrel goes in straight and not tilted. More than one clamp is easier, but not necessary. I also agree that the barrel or barrel channel could be angled or tilted slightly like some of the other gentlemen have stated . Keep us posted as to what's going on.   ...Geo.

[keweenaw]

If the sides flats of the stock are slightly narrower than the width of the barrel, when you push it down it will wedge and never contact on the bottom three flats.  It only takes a couple thousands of difference to get this condition.  To correct you just need to scrape a few thousands from either side flat and the barrel should bottom.

Tom

[greymount]

The lock is pre-inlet for the Siler lock.

[Jim Filipski]

The lock is pre-inlet for the Siler lock.

Greymount Keep in mind if your lock is pre-inlet  the position of the barrel both depth & length will be determined by where the lock will go..... so make sure you know where your flash pan is located in the stock in relationship to where that barrel is headed!  It is all too easy with a precarved stock, to move your barrel into a position where the touchole will  not be in the proper place. this happens a lot from the questions I read on this list!

[Burgess_rudy]

You are bringing back painful memories of my Virginia Rifle build (my first ever). Just reading where the black was showing up and nowhere else makes me cringe. I spent  days working on that thing and it turned out to be just a small piece of wood at the side near the bottom below where the front of the lock inlet curves around about an inch in front of the tang. It was a very thin piece of wood that looks like it should be part of the stock, but in my case it turned out just to be where the machine did not inlet the stock all the way. I thought it was part of the stock and I kept scraping it thinner and it finally broke though. I thought I had ruined the stock. It turns out, that that piece was not supposed to be there. Good luck, I feel your pain.

[greymount]

I spent over 4 hours last night and still cannot get the barrel to bottom out in the stock channel.  I have soot marks on the breach and on the bottom channel flat for about 1 inch from the breach.  I do not have any soot marks anywhere else on the bottom flat. My stock does have some warping and this can be seen when I place the barrel in the stock.  In the forestock near the muzzle area, the stock is off about 1/4 inch and I have to push the barrel into the channel.  Could this be causing the barrel not to seat correctly? Or again maybe, it is getting caught up on some other area.  I would think that I should have some soot marks on the lower channel. 

[b bogart]

Do you have a long straight edge (yard stick etc) that you can lay on each of the bottom three flats? Slide it along and try to determine if there are high spots that cause it to rock. Put sharpie marker ink on the edge of it and rub back and forth, maybe it'll mark that pesky high spot or two? Just thinking outloud here.
Bruce

[Benedict]

It has been a long time since I built a precarved stock but I have inletted quite a few barrels.  I keep thinking that the problem may the the vertical flats.  Are there any marks on them?  They might not be truely vertical but sloped inward.  Particularly if you say the barrel is tight.  And yes the warping might be causing some problems. 

As I recall, the precarve stocks can bend which has the potential for giving false readings.  With blanks, the blank does not bend but the barrel can which can give false readings.

Good Luck.

Bruce

[David Price]

Graymount,
A couple of thoughts.

Have you taken the plug out of the barrel?  The barrel should be set with the plug out first, then replace the plug and inlet the tang.

If the lock is already pre cut, you should be able to look in the lock mortice  and see if the barrel is touching the bottom or not.

[Pete G.]

Sounds to me like maybe the bottom corners of the barrel may be a tad wider than the inlet. Use you calipers and measure the inlet at several places and see what you come up with. One of the most versitile tools I ever made was a scraper that came to a 90 degree point. It will solve problems in a corner in no time.

[George F.]

You said that the ONLY place you are getting ANY transfer color is at the breech. Are you removing the wood there still? If you are, then stop. Are you blackening the 2 side flats? If you haven't do that. Are you blackening the 2 diagonal flats? If you're transferring color there, then remove the colored wood with a scraper or a chisel. After all these attempts at bedding that barrel I can't believe you're not transferring color only at the breech. This leads me to believe the cutter that was used to cut the barrel channel was resharpened and is a little under size now. So blacken the barrel on the 3 bottom flats AND the two side flats. When you see transfer color on the vertical sides look for the the shinney spots because they are the tight ones.  good luck!   ...Geo

[George F.]

Hey big Grey, How's that barrel inletting going?   ...Geo.

[greymount]

Got the barrel inletted with the help of someone else, but when inletting the tang and tapping with a light hammer I created a hairline crack in the wrist of the gun.  The hairline crack is about 1 inch long and it runs from near the the rear tang area off to the right.  It seems that it's not too deep but it is hard to tell.  Can there be hairline cracks on the surface that can be sanded out? The stock is a "grade 4" which probably makes it more prone to fractures. I will try to take a photo and post it. Now its one more hurdle to clear.   

[George F.]

Well, it's best to glue the crack. Leave the barrel in and glue the crack up forcing the glue in with your finger tip . Just squeeze the glue along the crack, and keep pushing it in until it wont take any more. Sometimes you'll need more pressure to force it into the tiny crack. If this be the case, then try using something like hard rubber that you can use as a spredder. After your satisfied with getting the glue in, remove the barrel and see if the crack closes up some. If it does ,use a wet, not soaking wet, and clean up the extra glue.Next try to to clamp the crack closed. If the barrel is still out BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL, about handling it, on my first gun I completely broken off the lower fore stock turning it around near a doorway after rubbing the last coat of oil on the stock. For clamping the stock, if you have a clamp, and can clamp the stock, try to protect the wood by padding under the clamp, cardboard taped to the wrist should do. If when you took the barrel out, and no glue sqeezed out of the crack you should PUT THE BARREL BACK IN BEFORE YOU CLAMP THE STOCK.  Now that's over We are all either taking bets, or are just curious as to the reason what was the problem with inletting the barrel?   ...Geo.

[keweenaw]

You'll absolutely need to glue that crack.  What I've found to be the best way to get glue into the crack is to drill a small hole (1/16") along it well below the surface of the wood.  As I assume the crack is at the back of the breech plug, drill along the crack from about 1/4" below the surface of your wood. Fill the hole with glue and then use a punch that has the same diameter as the hole to force the glue out of the hole and up into the crack.  Clamp appropriately.  This approach will get a lot more glue into the deeper parts of the crack than will wiping it in with your finger unless the crack is pretty wide.

Tom