Prices realized at "Jack Vye Collection" Auction ( KRF)

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

Here is URL:

http://kentuckyriflefoundation.org/projects/jack-vye-collection-auction/

[VP]

The prices listed on the Kentucky Rifle Foundation webpage has an incorrect price listed on rifle #60, William Earnhardt. The price should read $6,313. It should be corrected shortly. Please note the prices include a 7% premium upon the hammer price.

VP

[brooktrout]

Good info on the prices.  I am somewhat surprised at the range. 

[VP]

Brooktrout,

When you say you are surprised by the range, what are you meaning? You think the guns went to cheaply or the fact that their were high priced rifles and low ones also? I am just curious to what you thought. It might help the KRF on the next auction.

VP

[brooktrout]

Maybe I should have used the term "spread".  Generally based on my very superficial knowledge, most seemed to be lower than what I expected.  The few that broke the 5 digit barrier also seemed to be "low" considering what you were getting.  Now, for sure, I'm not a buyer of a $10,000 to $20,000 gun but with that said I feel they were very good values.

Back to the "spread".  The lowest was about $1100 and the highest pushing $20,000 as I recall.  Quite a spread, indeed.

Given that the auction was open only to KRF members is good in that it tends to assure they will be appreciated and valued by the purchasers.  But it also limits buyer access and some of those buyers who thus were not present because they are not members may very well have pushed the prices higher.  In fact, Ill step out and suggest that an auction with open access to the general public would have netted a higher total.  Good for the seller and good for the KRF?  Maybe....maybe not.

[Shreckmeister]

The auction was open to the public, not just KRA members.  Could selling the collection individually over
time have yielded more dollars?  Yes, but time, expense and the hassles of selling them piece by piece  have to be factored.  Put them in Cowan's or Julia and the fees would have been tremendously more and perhaps not much of a better audience.

[jdm]

The K.R.A. show was closed to the general public as it always is. The auction of some of Jacks guns was in another room at the same place. It was open to the general public .

[brooktrout]

I did not know that.  Sort of blows my theory!

So all I can say is that "they" should make it clear that it is open to the public.  Maybe it was but I never saw any such detail.

Not to be critical of the KRA but it tends to once again reinforce the notion that it's somehow hard to connect with the world of long rifles.  A detail I suppose well known buy members.  Wonder how many members were registered for the auction?  How many total bidders were registered?  How many members attended the non-auction activities?  How many members are in the KRA?  Guess none of that matters now however.

Thanks!

[HIB]

Brooktrout,  Comments like your last post are interesting. The KRF/Vye collection auction was opened to anyone who attended, not just Kentucky Rifle Association members. The KRF [educational arm of the KRA] made that fact clear.  Outside bidding was also allowed as long as the participant understood the individual attending the auction and bidding for him/her had ample cash to pay for the gun immediately after the auction.

Restrictions only applied to the KRA annual meeting room. You have to be a member of the KRA to gain entrance to that room.

I'm not sure of the statistics but do know a number of guns went to non-KRA members.

The spread you speak of is an indication of the quality of the guns presented. If you throw out the lowest hammer price and the highest hammer price you'll find the average cost per the remaining 29 guns was approx. $3500.

Statistics can be a fun game. Suggest you go back thru the numbers and throw out the top 2 hammer prices and the bottom two hammer prices and you will arrive at a  slightly different number.

Having said all that; As you gain more and more interest in a focused collecting plan you will begin to study only those guns that peak your interest. That is when you will fall into one or two categories: 1] Accumulator or 2] Specific collector.

I personally have been both but only up to the point when I realized it "Was not How Many.... but How Good". Same adage that applies to all antiques and several other life long pursuits.

Next years auction will follow the same rules but my understanding will be the average hammer price is expected to be a bit lower. Hope you participate should one of the next Jack Vye's guns appeal to you.  Also keep a close eye on the upcoming Julia auction in the fall.  There  will be some interesting fireworks there.

Regards, HIB

[brooktrout]

HIB:

Just for kicks I went to google and tried to see what came up on the auction.  A good deal of post auction commentary but after looking through several pre auction items I saw nothing that indicated the auction was open to the public. In fact just about every article was from the KRA or foundation or a facebook page (Not into facebook!)  Now, I could not have attended in any event so personally it does not matter but I just wonder how obvious the foundation made that it was open to the public.   Oh well...

You correct and my thinking runs parallel to yours.  Numbers of guns owned does not equate to quality.   

[VP]

Brooktrout

Thanks for clarifying your position on the "spread" of the auctioned rifles. I believe Jack Vye's collection was like most of ours. It has some rifles that will bring high value and some that will not bring top dollar. I don't know if you are on Facebook but the Kentucky Rifle Foundation facebook page made several announcements that the auction was open to the public. I don't think any of our posted information stated that it was a KRA only auction. If it were we wouldn't have made so many public announcements about it.

VP

[brooktrout]

I totally avoid facebook....it's an old guy thing.  So whatever comes into the world via facebook will be missed by me but I'll survive.  Had I attended, I'm sure I would have made a serious attempt to buy something, still a lot of the guns with extensive inlays just did not really appeal.  I did see a facebook photo of the auction.  Looks like there were plenty of folks there.  I'll be watching in the future.

Regards!!!

[Habu]

Brooktrout,  Comments like your last post are interesting. The KRF/Vye collection auction was opened to anyone who attended, not just Kentucky Rifle Association members. The KRF [educational arm of the KRA] made that fact clear.  

I read the initial post here when the auction was announced.  As the auction was being held in conjunction with the (closed to the public) KRA Annual Meeting--and nothing was said to the contrary--I took that to mean the auction was also closed to the public.

[brooktrout]

I'll add to that as well HIB.  A member communicated to me that the "show" was for members only.  While he never specifically so stated it, I took it that also applied to the auction and given the nature of that discussion I'll bet he thought it was closed to the public as well.

[HIB]

Gentlemen,  I join you in not participating in 'Facebook' entries so don't really know what was posted there before the auction regarding 'Open to the Public'.

My personal post re: the subject was posted on 6/18 12:45 a.m. as a responce to 'Bucks'  question dealing with same. I probably should have posted in 'bold maroon' but missed the opportunity. I can see how my post got overlooked and apologize for not making it a bigger issue or single line item on the opening page. Actually the dynamics of the auction changed several times. When first planned it may not have been open to the public: That obviously change and the word got out around 6/13.
The KRF also got a big surprise regarding Pa. tax laws.

Not much point in carrying this further other than to say next year you will be the first to be invited.  Bring cash, a mentor and a plan. I'll do my best to help as will all the other KRF volunteers.  Regards,  HIB

[Bill-52]

Henry,

I want to thank you for taking the lead in getting the KRF/Jack Vye auction information on ALR.  Posting all the information & photos, as well as answering all the questions was no small task.  Opening up ALR in the morning to see what you had posted the night before became part of my morning routine.  In addition to providing great eye candy for ALR members, I'm quite sure your efforts positively impacted the auction results.

Thanks again,
Bill

[Fullstock longrifle]

VP and myself oversee the Facebook page, and the fact that the auction was open to the public was prominently discussed there. As Henry has said, plans did change several times in the initial planning stages of the auction. Remember, this was a first for us, so it was a learning experiance for all involved. Hopefully all the the bugs will be out of the process for the next auction, but all things considered, I think it  went very well for a first time event. By the way we have over 300 likes on Facebook, if you're on Facebook, check us out.

Frank

[Shreckmeister]

I would also like to commend Henry and others on organizing a fine auction and taking the time to post the rifles and reply to the inquiries on ALR.  I know they had many hours in this endeavor with no
personal stake other than the furtherance of their effort to educate people about the history and
beauty of the Pennsylvania Longrifle and to help the family of a brother KRA member.  These selfless
acts benefit all the collecting/historian community.

[jdm]

Rob,
Very well put.

[Curtis]

Rob,
Very well put.

I firmly second that statement!

Curtis

[HIB]

Gentlemen,  First and foremost thank you for the generous comments. I believe it has been stated previously that this was a full Kentucky Rifle Foundation board of directors effort.

Actually it all started as an idea presented to Mac Spencer, KRF president, by KRA member Craig Johnson. Craig was close to the Vye family and thought Jack Vye would want the guns offered in the manner that they were. Mac said "go" and KRA members Jerry Noble, Curt Johnson, Joe Maurer along with Craig visited with the family and made the arrangements and cataloged the guns.

The KRF board members all pitched in and one way or another developed a plan and successfully implemented the organized roll out of that plan.

Van Pitman handled the KRF web page and along with Frank Kobilis the 'Facebook' page. Terry and Kathy Murphy along with their daughter Becky handled the accounting. Tim and Helen Hodges took care of the mass mailing. And you can bet I came close to shooting the PhotoBucket system but with the help of Dennis Gillespie finally figured out how to post pictures. That's when the fun began.

Primary credit goes to Craig Johnson and Mac Spencer. The rest of us simply fell into our normal KRF roles and got the job done.   Regards,  HIB