Author Topic: Horn Eatin Bug  (Read 13932 times)

Offline LynnC

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Horn Eatin Bug
« on: February 07, 2009, 03:58:33 AM »
I'm talkin Modern made horns here.  What is this powder horn eatin bug and how do I get Rid of it?  Prevent it in the first place??? What can I put on the horn to deter the hungry bug whatever it is?
Thanks...............................Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

John A. Stein

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2009, 05:07:55 AM »
Somewhere I read that the horn eating bug was the carpet beetle. Horns and the wool in carpets are essentially the same material, keratin, I believe that might the case. Moth balls or flakes (naphthalene) will protect the horns if they are kept in a cabinet or plastic bags. 

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2009, 07:48:49 AM »
I thought that the bugs that eat the horns are larva of the moths that eat wool??  Funny thing here, I have never seen these larva eat a powder horn that is filled with powder.  I have had them get into my supply of raw horns.  To stop this I store the raw horns in 30 gallon plastic garbage cans and liberally spray the horns with Raid. Some other horns, that have already been scraped, I store in plastic containers with cedar wood blocks and that also keeps the bugs from chewing on the horns.

Randy Hedden

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Offline Paddlefoot

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2009, 09:03:13 AM »
They most certainly will eat a horn with powder in it  ($*%&@*!(@*$%
The nation that makes great distinction between it's warriors and it's scholars will have it's thinking done by cowards and it's fighting done by fools. King Leonidas of Sparta

Offline Longknife

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2009, 05:58:26 PM »
They will also eat horn inlays on your guns!!!!!!!!! I thought I was the  only one with this problem. I have sprayed my horns with "home defense" bug spray and recently placed my horns in an old metal bread box with moth balls.....Ed
Ed Hamberg

Offline LynnC

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2009, 06:46:06 PM »
Thanks all for the replys.

What I've noticed is that if I keep my horns hanging up out in the open air either in the shop or house, I don't seem to have a problem.  So far anyway.

If I store them, shop or house, they get eaten.

Moth balls & bug spray huh?  Not what I was hoping for though I'm sure they're very effective. 

So rubbing them down with BLO or Bee's wax would not be a deterrent.

Is there anything that doesn't smell so bad or is not so poisonous to handle that I could use?................................Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 07:25:58 PM »
There are a whole host of wee critters out there that will eat horn as well as any other protein based goods.

Loosing several hundred horns to carpet beetle larvae some years back is what pushed me into the horn dye project.

If you go back to when horn was something of an industry I had to wonder how they could ship cattle horn around the world in saling ships without having them turned into colanders as mine had been.  That is when I got into Project Greenhorn.

When Project Greenhorn was finished I set it up as my last display at the Gunmaker's Fair.  At that time they still had sheep on the farm across the road from Dixons.  Set up on the table was a plain raw horn, an iron dyed horn and a copper dyed (green) horn.  Being hot, the flies liked to hang around under the tents.  It was fun to watch the flies with the horns.  They were all over the plain raw horn.  They would land on the iron dyed horn and then quickly take off again.  But none would land on the green horn.

I had stored some raw horns in the basement in cardboard boxes.  Other boxes of horns were out back in the shed.  They got into both.  Little fluffy looking bugs that I could not identify.  At the time this neighborhood still had a lot of retired folks in their 70's and 80's.  One elderly gentlemen identified the critters as carpet beetles.  Commented that this things were a real problem back in the days of wool rugs in the houses.

So I loaded up the boxes with mothballs.  A few weeks later I noticed that the bugs were boring holes in the moth balls.  So that really pushed project greenhorn at a faster pace.

A lot of digging through industrial chemistry books showed that into the late 19th century acid salts of various metals were used to dye protein based goods to protect against insect attack along with bacterial attack and mold.
The acid metal dye technology can be traced back to the ancient Greeks and was written about by Pliny, the Elder, in Rome in 50 A.D.

Offline LynnC

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 07:48:42 PM »
So maybe I could stain the horn with an iron solution (vinegar & iron?) and deter the little buggers?  Or soak the horn in it!!!

Since I don't do scrim work on horns I really don't mind a color change.  Just want to stop th bugs ;D...............................Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 08:02:48 PM »
So maybe I could stain the horn with an iron solution (vinegar & iron?) and deter the little buggers?  Or soak the horn in it!!!

Since I don't do scrim work on horns I really don't mind a color change.  Just want to stop th bugs ;D...............................Lynn

With an iron dye I have done it both ways.

I have soaked horns in a nitrate of iron bath and have simply wiped it onto the surface of the horn after it was shaped and smoothed.  You must insure that there is no oil from your hands on the horn or the dye cannot wet out and sink into the horn.  A good rub with rubbing alcohol will remove any skin oil.

If the horn has a lot of white color the dye will not take on the white portions.  Areas of the horn with little or no pigment will dye well.  The sections with no pigmentation are more porous than sections with pigmentation.

You might also experiment with copper dying for the green color.
Historically the green dye would have been a strong solution of copper acetate.  But copper acetate is toxic and tough to come by.  I have made it myself using sections of copper pipe in a crock with wine vinegar.  As it was done in days of old.
But an easier way is to simply pick up copper sulfate at a garden center.  Make a solution with as much copper sulfate as you can get dissolved in the water.  Then simply de-oil the horn and soak it.  When you remove it from the dye bath have a wood plug handy to stick in the open end where the plug will go.  The horn is fairly pliable out of the dye bath but it will shrink as it looses water during drying.  So you want to keep the hole circular until you install a plug after the horn drys a few days.

I never had any luck working with the copper dye where I simply swabbed it onto the horn as I did with the iron dye.  I could only dye them green using a bath.

At one time they had used the copper dye to protect animal hides on their way to a tannery.  Used in areas of the world where common salt was simply too expensive and the climate did not permit sun drying the hides before shipment.


Offline LynnC

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 11:40:30 PM »
Thanks MM - Great info!

Will print out and give these a try.  I think I'll try the iron stain on my finished horns and perhaps the copper on the next one I make.

I appreciate the info from all.......................Lynn
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 11:42:35 PM by Lynn Cook »
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2009, 06:19:58 PM »
I'm talkin Modern made horns here.  What is this powder horn eatin bug and how do I get Rid of it?  Prevent it in the first place??? What can I put on the horn to deter the hungry bug whatever it is?
Thanks...............................Lynn

In the old days horns were often soaked in a heated water bath with a copper solution added. Like copper sulfate IIRC.
This prevented bugs and bacteria from attacking the horns. Kills them if they do bite it.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline RobertS

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2009, 07:22:07 AM »
Here's a link to an interesting article I read a while back about the dermestid beetle, as related to eating horn knife handles:  http://www.knife-expert.com/bugs036.txt

Dancy

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2009, 08:17:05 PM »
Seems that I heard in the old days they would bury the horns in cow manure for a while and after that the bugs wouldn't bother them, no joke.  Anyone else heard this?

Offline davec2

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 07:24:08 AM »
Copied my post on this subject from the old board archives:  Mabey it's just me, but I like the idea of cedar oil better than burying my horns in manure.  However, if you want to talk about preserving Congress from bug infestation, perhaps I would change my mind.  OOOPPPS...got political for a moment....sorry.

Several years ago, I had two horns that the bugs got into and ate several pits in them.  For want of anything better, I started using a light rub of cedar oil on them about once a year.  (The wood working places sell it to renew the cedar in chests and closets to repel bugs and moths.)  I wouldn't use it on a rare antique horn, just because I don't know what it would do, but I have used it with great success (i.e. no more bug attacks) for a long time and the horns still look great.  This one is almost 30 years old and has been treated with the cedar oil for the last 10.
 



« Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 12:35:42 AM by davec2 »
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 08:17:44 PM »
The metallurgy lab at my former employer for some odd reason bought couple jars of copper acetate. It does make the horn green-colored.

Made a flat priming horn for a fellow. Soaked it in copper acetate, stuck in some copper for good measure & forgot it for a year or so. When I took it out it looked black to me. Finished the horn, been so long I just gave it to Mr. Herrington. Got that polite blank stare, like OK I'll accept it but I have no idea in $#*! that I ever ordered it. Saw it a few years ago on (Widow) Laura H.'s table at Lapeer. It had turned a nice green.

Personally not so fond of green for an 18th Century horn.

Would like to see examples of what color iron nitrate, or iron acetate, makes a horn.   

Offline LynnC

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Re: Horn Eatin Bug
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 07:09:02 AM »
More interesting things to try!  That cedar oil ought to smell good!

I appreciate all the interest........................Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......