Sealing a powder horn

[Stuartg]

After finishing my first rifle build a bit ago, I decided that it needed a powder horn to go with it. So I ordered a Cureton powder horn kit from powderhornsandmore. After doing some basic shaping/design work, I proceeded to drill and pin the base as directed in the instructions. I've read about testing for airtight/waterproofing, so I blew in it and can feel air escaping from the pins...not much, but just enough to know it's not 100% sealed. How do you guys solve this? Pulling the little brass nails at this point doesn't seem possible. Thanks!

[J Henry]

First go to www.thehornersbench.com   all about horns and building them  great site..In the between time,I seal mine by rolling up small balls of bees wax,put then inside the horn,,in the spout,then tip the horn up so they lay against the Butt plug,Now heat the outside of the horn,around thee butt plug, with a Hair dryer,slowly rotate the horn to move the melted bees wax around the butt plug.When I test for Sealed I gently blow into the spout,pressure the horn,let the horn cool and then test again.By pressurizing the horn when the wax is liquid,the wax is pushed into all the small cracks and crannies.Let it cool sets the wax.Been doing it this way for along time,,works great.
   Go to the Hornersbench site,,Great source for horn building,great group there to,,,Not one Self proclaimed Expert there,just friendly craftsman who are doers and more the willing to help.
  Remember:The timing of a rain dance has a lot to do with the outcome. See you up the trail.

[Stuartg]

Many thanks! Sounds like a good trick to me.

[T*O*F]

The other thing about water tightness is the stopper.  It should be tapered rather than straight.  A straight plug will wear over time and become loose and may also swell and stick when it is new.  A tapered plug does none of these things.

I have been on woodswalks where the first thing you had to do was submerge your horn in a bucket of water for one minute, after which you could begin the event.

[Shreckmeister]

The other thing about water tightness is the stopper.  It should be tapered rather than straight.  A straight plug will wear over time and become loose and may also swell and stick when it is new.  A tapered plug does none of these things.

I have been on woodswalks where the first thing you had to do was submerge your horn in a bucket of water for one minute, after which you could begin the event.

    That's a creative bunch you woodswalk with, but that quickly seperates the men from the boys.

[Stuartg]

I agree! Those are some serious woods walkers.

[Dphariss]

If I fall in the creek I ain't staying in for a minute. 

Dan

[Top Jaw]

In the past I have used some slightly watered down elmers glue in one of those larger/longer plastic coffee stirers to get it into the horn.  With a thumb over the end for suction, you can direct it into the spout hole to the area needed.  Let the horn remain upright (base down) for a day or two, with a fan running on it if you want, and this will seal it.  I also used varnish once in a thin horn that you could see through, but it took many days to dry!  The glue was better.   

Top Jaw

[The Original Griz]

I do 2 different ways, the one I did for years was to pour melted beeswax down the spout, swirl it around and then dump the extra out. this makes a water tight seal between the wood/horn from the inside. As of lately, I have been using trim/molding glue for finish trim in a house, I apply it to the inside of the horn and then stick the cap in, pin it in place, then blow slightly into the horn, this forces the glue into all those place that air may be getting out. Either works well and will give you a water tight seal. The beeswax will melt if a horn is left lay in direct sun for an extended period of time......

[Mad Monk]

Keep in mind that you simply cannot make a horn totally sealed from the air around it. 
With changes in atmospheric pressure air will move in and out of the interior of the horn.  The horn is rigid so it cannot flex to accommodate changes in atmospheric pressure.  You can keep liquid water (rain) out of a horn but moisture in the air ( as relative humidity) cannot be totally excluded.

The black powders presently on the market are generally of high quality when it comes to the purity of the potassium nitrate used in their manufacture.  Powders prepared with a 99.9% pure potassium nitrate pick up only minute traces of moisture up until the R.H. reaches 92%.  Above 92% R.H. the powder then begins to pick up moisture.

Attempted to make the horn totally 100% sealed may prove futile.

Mad Monk

[HAWKEN]

I use a glue that expands as it dries, like Gorilla Glue.  I let the horn set on the base plug for 24 hours, then drill and pin to the plug.  I have been using 4" tooth picks for pins, the kind you use for hors-d-vireos.  They are about 1/8" in diameter, and they accept stain well.  I cut them off short, then sand them off even with the horn, prior to staining them.  I use the same glue on them that I use on the plug.  Keep yer powder dry.........Robin

[skillman]

I've decided that we take sealing the horns much more seriously than it was taken in the past. Like the Monk, I don't believe you can, nor should you try to, make a horn completely air or water tight at all times. Just my thought.

Steve

[Habu]

The key factors for a good seal at the butt seem to be dimensionally stable wood, (preferably quarter-sawn), a close fit to the horn, a good seal around the pins, and (surprise!) no holes going through the plug.  Pin your strap attachment to the wood, not through it.  A horn with a strap hanger pinned through the wood, or with a threaded or plugged "filler", is much more likely to leak. 

I gave up on wax a while back, after the wax sealing a horn melted and contaminated my powder.  My most-carried horn was made in camp, and sealed with pine pitch (or tar, I don't recall).  About 15 years later, it spent a few days under water after a canoe wreck.  When recovered, the powder was fine but the wood plug had taken on enough moisture that when it dried out it cracked.  I eventually made a new plug, sealed it with pine tar, and expect it to last for at least another 20 years.

[skillman]

And yet we know from close examination that many of the attachments for the strap to the butt did go through the butt of the horn on originals.

Steve

[The Original Griz]

And yet we know from close examination that many of the attachments for the strap to the butt did go through the butt of the horn on originals.

Steve

And we're clinched over to keep them secure in the wood. Mine are all covered with glue or wax depending on the situation to keep any water from getting in. But like Steve said is it really needed? How many times do we actually shoot in a down pour, or what is the likely hood of having a canoe crash. I sometimes feel we over think the simple thing in life and therefore turn them into a difficult one... Just my humble thoughts. I must be getting old as I like simple much better now-a-days

[J Henry]

  I seal my horn like it might take a Casual dunking,,not a long term event.. If it is raining I try to get out of it and if I take a dunking, again I get out as soon as I can..  There are as many way to make a horn "water resistant" as there are makers,all work from time to time so I figure ,,try one and go from there.

[WadePatton]

... what is the likely hood of having a canoe crash. ...

now that is purely a function of who is paddling, how you're loaded, the condition of the "seas", oh boy has I crashed some canoes!

...but it we weren't loaded with powder ever.

Now i need to finish my horn, which will get "thru" stapled and waxed.

[Habu]

And yet we know from close examination that many of the attachments for the strap to the butt did go through the butt of the horn on originals.

Yep.  That might suggest a couple of things.

Perhaps we pay too much attention today to how well-sealed a horn is, relative to past practices.  There are many accounts of the efforts made to keep horns out of the water on river crossings, and of wet powder in horns.  Maybe this was just expected.

On the other hand, it may indicate that many of the surviving horns were last used as "day horns" rather than horns carried by someone who expected to be out in the weather for long periods.  By the numbers I have, it seems that almost 2/3 of surviving powder horns had attachments that went through into the powder cavity.  When you look at horns carried by folks who were out in the weather for days or weeks, or of folks who were on the water, that percentage drops to maybe 20-25%.

[skillman]

Another thought on the weather proof thing is how many "original" horns show wear from being under coats or outer wear of some kind. If it protected the wearer then it would protect the horn as well.

Steve

[The Original Griz]

Now i need to finish my horn, which will get "thru" stapled and waxed.

How's that's funny:)