Author Topic: re: Mathias Miller ?  (Read 3745 times)

Offline chrisdefrance

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re: Mathias Miller ?
« on: August 09, 2014, 01:04:33 AM »
Mathias Miller

Over a period of several years, I have gone though the National Rifle Association Museum. There is a rifle made by Mathias Miller that continues to catch my attention. It is a Lehigh rifle made about 1790. The rifle is long, lean and graceful in semblance with a distinct roman nose. The brass patchbox is exquisite. The piece is federal in appearance carrying an American Eagle and our flag bearing stars and stripes.
 
There is not much information about Mathias Miller. Mathias Miller was born in 1743 and died in 1805. Mathias Miller's flintlock rifle in the National Rifle Association Museum, is in “The Road to American Liberty“ Gallery, in Case 15, Circa 1780 Flintlock rifle. Mathias Miller lived in Strasburg County, Pa., in 1779, and at Easton, Northampton Co., Pa., in 1788. He was known for the excellent workman ship of his gunlocks.
           
Does anyone know anything about Mathias Miller or the rifles that he built ?

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-road-to-american-liberty/case-15-shot-heard-around-the-world/mathias-miller-pennsylvania-kentucky-flintlock.aspx
"These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 03:46:01 PM »
The rifle shown looks like an upper Susquehanna gun and the attribution to Matthias Muller/Miller is a bit silly, especially given the clearly visible third initial on the barrel.  

This aside, there is precious little concrete information available on the Matthias Miller who can be traced to the Easton area prior to and during the War.  Matthias/Mathew Muller/Miller was a relatively common name and there are a few of them that can be placed all over SE PA during the 18th and early 19th century.  I don't believe the Strasburg MM and the Easton MM are the same guy.  During my research into Northampton Co. during the War years, I do recall only one or two references to this guy turning up and nothing specifically referencing him as a gunmaker.  The old 19th century county "Histories" of the area refer to him as a locksmith in Easton, but I can;t remember now if there was any hard documentation to support even that.  I believe I have a record of a property transaction prior to the War, and if you look in the Moravian gunmakers book, you will see that the Christian Oerter receipt for 50 guns mentions Mathias Miller in the same sentence as Abraham Berlin, both at Easton.  It would appear that at that time, anyway, Miller and Berlin were involved in supplying the Northampton Co. militia; well, I know for certain that Abraham Berlin was doing so, as there is a good trail of paperwork available which clarifies his functions, but there is very little concerning Miller.

I'll have to take some time and dig back through all my stuff and see if I had anything else on him.  I clearly recall **trying** to find concrete information relative to the guy, but there was just nothing there other than a property transaction or two and some records of births (children) ca. 1770s/1780s era I think.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 03:50:43 PM by Eric Kettenburg »
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Offline Don Stith

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 10:59:49 PM »
Looks a lot like Simon Millers "signature" But I don't remember his middle initial. Also looks like his work

Offline chrisdefrance

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 02:38:40 AM »
Eric Kettenburg and Don Stith,

Thank you both for the proper direction that you got me headed in. See what you think about this ? The “ S “ and the eight pointed star sure look familiar. I had been looking in RCA and online but did not make any headway. I am learning. I believe I will be able to recognize an Upper Susquehanna Rifle when I see one again.

The first picture is from the site below. The second photograph is from the NRA Museum.

The Gun #1 is signed as "S" and then an eight pointed star and then "Miller ". The "S" and the eight pointed star are very similar to the NRA Rifle. The barrel on the NRA Rifle is not in the quality of condition of the Gun #1's barrel. But the shape of the S and M are very similar on both rifles. The shape of the star is very similar on both rifles with the slightly longer  - star - dashes on either side of the star on the NRA Rifle.

Well gentlemen, it does look like this NRA Rifle could have been made by an S Miller or Samuel Miller ? What do you think ? Is there more that can be attributed to the similarity between the NRA and the three known Miller's ? What do you think ?

http://hurricanenordgallery.com/index.php?topic=20.0



"These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."

Offline chrisdefrance

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 04:58:44 AM »
I was looking at the similarities of the NRA Miller beside the other Gun #1, Gun #2 and Gun #3. The style is overall the same being the Upper Susquehanna obviously that was what first point you to the Upper Susquehanna. There is no comparison of locks and the lock-plates are different.
Look at the picture below. This is the barrel at the rear sight on the NRA Miller rifle.

The trigger-guards are very similar between the NRA and Gun#1. How often do you see a barrel Octogon to round with a single ring on a rifle ? Is that a patch or repair on the left side of the picture ?



"These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."

Offline Don Stith

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 03:17:48 PM »
I'll bet there is an iron rivet securing the tail of the entry thimble too. Don't ever bet against EK though. He is a thorough researcher and has a memory, unlike some of us that used to have a memory.
Could be a smooth rifle. Lot of them made in that area and the simple transition from Oct to Round is not uncommon. 

Offline chrisdefrance

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 06:07:31 PM »
Simon Miller

Here are six rifles by the Simon Miller or S. Miller and a  part of the Upper Susquehanna School.
Beyond the three that are in the American Longrifle Archives, there are another three available
online and given as Guns #4, #5, and #6 below. It is amazing how many of these rifles have
been obtainable in the last dozen years.  Each of these three rifles are signed as well. Simon
Miller’s signature is a beautiful cursive design graced by distinctive eight pointed stars. I need
to find out more about Simon Miller and his life in Pennsylvania. Eric and Don, Thank you.

1 . Simon Miller rifles by S. Miller signed S * Miller are Gun #1, Gun #2, and Gun #3 are in the
     site below. These three gun are a part of the Hurricanenordgallery.com and in the  
     Gunmakers of the Upper Susquehanna. The first Gun #1 is signed as on the barrel below.
      hurricanenordgallery.com > Gunmakers of the Upper Susquehanna...
      Fred Garner
      http://hurricanenordgallery.com/index.php?topic=20.0

2.   S. Miller rifle  Gun #2 not signed Shown same site given above.

3.   S. Miller rifle  Gun #3 not signed Shown same site given above.

4.   S. Miller rifle  Gun #4  signed S * Miller .  Shown in the site below.
      http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-2378-attic-condition-incise-carved-flintlock-rifle-by-simon-miller-hamburg-pennsylvania-
      49174/

5.   S. Miller rifle Gun #5  signed S * Miller Sold on Gregg Martin Antiques Shown on the site
      below.
      http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/kentucky/Lot-2065.htm

6.   S. Miller Gun # 6  signed S * Miller with a large star between. A beautiful silver eagle on the    
      cheek. Shown in the site below.
     http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f425.htm
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:09:13 AM by chrisdefrance »
"These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."

Offline JTR

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Re: re: Mathias Miller ?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 07:31:57 PM »
I'm not sure how or if Mathias Miller relates to S miller, but there's certainly some similarity in their work.

S. Miller was a prolific maker, and all of his rifles that I've seen seem to have a lot of bells and whistles with very similar carving on them. All that I've seen are signed
S (star) Miller, with no middle initial.
 
With his carving and the bells and whistles on his guns, they seem to be a pretty good bang for the buck!

I never found much info about his life, other than the short paragraph in the books. 

John
John Robbins