Tennessee rifle

[okawbow]

Hi all, I want to build a 25 or 29 caliber iron mounted Tennessee rifle, about 1820 era style. I want to use a 3/4" swamped barrel and a small flintlock to match. Would the L&R Manton lock be appropriate for this rifle? Any other small locks that would look right?

[rsells]

I have used Manton locks early on with 3/4 barrels, changed over to Chamber's late Ketland with good results.  I have been taking a bit off the top and bottom of the plate of the Ketland.  The availability of the Chamber's lock may be an issue right now.   They are hard to find.  It may have changed in the last couple of months, but it was an issue early on this year for me.
                                                             Roger Sells

[okawbow]

Thanks, Roger
Was there a noticeable difference in the function and quality of those two locks?

[WadePatton]

I'm putting a Manton on a A-wt 30 caliber next, 46"  No idea the diameters, I really only think of bbls in terms of A/B/C-weights x length. 

Am cleaning up the lock presently, but I've never shot one.  Debating removing the ledge under the cover.

[J. Talbert]

Roger,
Did you use a front lock bolt on the combination of 3/4" barrel and Chambers late Ketland?  My initial impression of this combo made me think that the thin barrel would place the front lock bolt too high for good placement in the front extension of the lock.
What was your experience?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Bob Roller]

Roger,
I didn't see you at the CLA Show so I'll mail the lock plates to you.I had a late Chambers Ketland made up with my style of mechanism and delivered it to a Canadian friend I hadn't seen in 27 years along with a double set trigger.My wife went with me for the first time and wants to do it again.A NEW experience for her.Also saw Allen Sandy with his fine double guns,Jud Brennan,Larry Zornes and last but not least Barbie Chambers-Phillips.She showed me a late Ketland with the new cock and it looks really good.I think that lock is the best looking lock made today followed closely by the L&R small Manton.
I am cutting my work load back to 4 or 5 locks a month and that includes all types.I can get the L&R externals for the small Manton,Durs Egg and the Ashmore and on rare occasion,the Chambers late Ketland.That will be the flint line up and also Hawken caplocks and a rare once in a great while Enlish 4 pin sporting or target rifle lock for either the Alex Henry or Rigby types.

Bob Roller

[jamesthomas]

Hi all, I want to build a 25 or 29 caliber iron mounted Tennessee rifle, about 1820 era style. I want to use a 3/4" swamped barrel and a small flintlock to match. Would the L&R Manton lock be appropriate for this rifle? Any other small locks that would look right?

 I have a Manton I.E. a Bailes lock on my .40 cal. Southern Mountain rifle and it is a very fast lock and I have had no problems at all with it. I use Track of the Wolfs French amber flints in it and they last a long time, I think I got around 30+ shots with my last flint "thumbs up!".

[okawbow]

Thanks, James
I've used the L&R Bedford co. flintlock on another rifle last year, and it works well, but I had to do some tuning.
Chuck

[Jack Baier]

I have a Bailes lock on a Bill Shipman rifle from 1987. Its been trouble free and reliable all these years.

[E.vonAschwege]

Roger,
Did you use a front lock bolt on the combination of 3/4" barrel and Chambers late Ketland?  My initial impression of this combo made me think that the thin barrel would place the front lock bolt too high to for good placement in the front extension of the lock.
What was your experience?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,
   I'm finishing up an Eastern TN rifle right now with a 3/4" barrel and Chambers late Ketland lock.  Someone else started the piece - the barrel was inlet, RR drilled, and lock inlet, so I was set with that combo.  Realistically, the Late Ketland (as is) is pretty darn big for the barrel, and if you have a proper size web between the barrel and ramrod, there's almost no room for a front bolt.  I decided to skip the front bolt in this case, particularly as the web is less than 1/8" at the breech.  There's a lot of lockplate around the guts that can be filed off to make a smaller profile lock - if the lock hadn't been inlet already I would have gone this route, or picked the late English lock from Davis.  I'll post some photos on the forum in a couple weeks. 

-Eric

[J. Talbert]

Thanks Eric,
You pretty much confirmed my suspicions.  I know there are other locks that may be a better fit, but Chambers locks are always my first choice if there is one that suits the project.

Roger, I'm curious to know if your experience was similar to Eric's with that lock and barrel dimension?

Jeff

[Bob Roller]

There is a light rifle in the Huntington WVa Museum of Art that is credited to Simon Kenton and it has a slim barrel,full stock and a big military lock.I think that lock was an expedient to get the gun shooting.Tom Dawson made a copy of it using a similar big lock and said when the trigger was pulled it was sort of like the starting torque of a 1/2" electric drill. It's an awkward arrangement but that may be why I like it.

Bob Roller

[bgf]

To Okabow,
Manton is actually a little "fancier" than necessary, but you can file off some of the fru-fra and make it look more "barrel of locks" like, at least that is what I did with a Durs Egg, which is quite similar, but bigger.  I've also looked at some of the small L&R "RPL" locks.  Though they are intended for replacing Spanish Maslin copies on CVA's, some of them have styles very similar to what you might see on late flints (which makes sense if you think about the Maslin that was supposed to be copied).

To J. Talbert,
The Late Ketland worked on an 11/8" barrel with only trivial adjustment, so I'd guess it is large on a 3/4" breech.  Tipping the tail of the lock down is an option seen on quite a few nice antiques, though, so it might work depending on the wrist architecture, drop, and so on....  If the design is late enough to allow rounding the tail of the lockplate, that gives you even more aesthetic flexibility, I think.

In general, I think the Chambers Late Ketland is a great lock and probably my first  choice for out of the box functionality based on several I've seen, but I wouldn't forego the L&R Manton and Durs Egg either.  I had L&R replace my old, tired Durs Egg cast main and frizzen springs with their new forged ones (requires a new hole to be drilled for the mainspring) at Friendship in the spring and I couldn't be happier.  I had drawn the frizzen temper back a touch years ago, and it sparks every bit as fast as the Ketland on my chunk gun.  The most recent times I've seen L&R locks, they are improving them quite a bit over just a few years ago.  I think they have changed their frizzen material and now use forged mainsprings on all the new locks, so I would suggest checking them out before dismissing them completely.  And if you like the style of one of the L&R's, a Bob Roller upgrade makes it one of the finest locks you've ever seen.

[Joe Schell]

I think the Chambers late ketland is a better lock. This is a rifle I built using that lock and a 3/4'' barrel.

[J. Talbert]

Joe,
Nice looking rifle.
Did you use one or two lock bolts?

Jeff

[Joe Schell]

Just one.

[rsells]

Okawbow/J.Talbert,
Both the small Manton and late Ketland are fast and I have not had issues with either of them.  I like using the late Ketland best because it has more height on the lock plate, and I can profile it to match the profile of an original Goulcher lock plate I have that I like to copy when making mountain rifles.  I have not used two side lock screws when building the late Ketland with 3/4 O.D. straight barrels, but I have used it when using B and A weight swamped barrels.  Every now and again I have to cut a small slot in the bottom of the front lock screw to allow the ramrod not to scrub when pushing it home.  Not a big issue, but another little job I have to do when the ramrod hole comes too close to the bottom barrel flat.
                                                                                      Roger

[EC121]

I have a 3/4 .30cal. with a small Siler that is as fast as any lock around.  The lock looks good with the barrel dimensions.  Don't limit yourself to one lock style.  Those mountain gunsmiths used or recycled whatever they had around to build a rifle.

[Dennis Glazener]

I have a 3/4 .30cal. with a small Siler that is as fast as any lock around.  The lock looks good with the barrel dimensions.  Don't limit yourself to one lock style.  Those mountain gunsmiths used or recycled whatever they had around to build a rifle.

I agree but even with used/recycled most all of them would have been English locks rather than the Germanic Siler's.
Dennis

[okawbow]

I think I will use the L&R Manton lock with the 3/4" barrel.

I had some time today, and hacksawed, filed, and riveted together, a steel triggerguard. I also made a 2 piece steel buttplate.

Handmade Tennessee parts by okawbow, on Flickr

I'll be using a hard maple stockblank, I've had laying around for 30 years.

[kaintuck]

I think I will use the L&R Manton lock with the 3/4" barrel.

I had some time today, and hacksawed, filed, and riveted together, a steel triggerguard. I also made a 2 piece steel buttplate.

Handmade Tennessee parts by okawbow, on Flickr

I'll be using a hard maple stockblank, I've had laying around for 30 years.

Nice days work!!! I admire that TG...

Marc n tomtom

[G-Man]

Nice looking hardware!

On the lock - Bob Roller makes some great small late style flintlocks - worth checking with him to see what he has or is planning on running in the near future.  He posts on here pretty frequently.   They function superbly!