Shooting better

[Osprey]

My goal for this year is to shoot better.  We have club shoots every month and while I do fine at bench rest matches the offhand ones haven't been kind to me in the past (obviously it's me, not the gun).  Changing some things on my stance and hold, which has helped a bunch already, in fact shot my best score ever yesterday, 16 out of 20 silhouettes out to 75 yrds.  Anybody have any good tips you've benefitted from that might help me out?  Shooting flintlock, open sights, double triggers, .45 with 60 grains FFF.

Not expecting to stay with the guys shooting target sights, just trying to improve my own scores...

[Dphariss]

Put a piece of paper on a wall 10-20 feet away that scales a typical target. Set the cock all the way down and then dry fire the triggers 20 shots a night for a couple of weeks. Concentrate on follow through.
Then practice actual offhand shooting.
Dan

[J.D.]

Assuming one is shooting a flint gun, a hardwood block placed in the cock allows the added benefit of the shooter getting used to the cycling lock, when dry firing.

Otherwise, Dan is right on.

[Daryl]

Ditto - nothing like practise - any way you can get it. Developing the muscles to hold without tremor, and as steady as possible is important. I like the idea of the wooden flint - but use whatever flint's in the gun anyway - just make sure it's empty.  Flints are cheap.

I grip the rifle at the entry pipe - with forefinger running down the entry pipe.  I find this usually cuts down on the horizontal morvement and leaves mostly vertical movement. Other guys say it doesn't work for them.  Some guys try to make circles, etc - I find that makes for more misses.

  If you can get the sight's movement slowed down to where you can drop the hammer just before the sights align in the centre is best - it's all a timing thing. Those with the best timing hit more often.  Trying to hold centre steady works sometimes but no one can hold dead steady and with a flinter's slightly slower lock timing, you've got to let it off at the right time as you come 'in' on target.  This is for very small targets and bullseye targets. Large gongs promote trying to hold somewhere on the plate and shooting while the sights are 'roughly' there.  Not good - pick a spot on the gong and try to hit that, timing the movement for the ball to hit that exact spot - don't just try to hit the plate - that promotes misses. Concentrate on "The Spot".

[Scott Bumpus]

Dito what daryl said!  Aim small Miss small! Much is said about stopping the flinch, but in a flintlock follow through is just as important.  the ball aint going where the sights were when you touched the trigger, it's going where the sights were when you felt the push on your shoulder. Good shooting to everybody this year!!

[northmn]

I used to tell BP pistol shooters to get a 22 pistol like a Ruger single six and shoot a coulple of bricks of ammo. Some shot the BP revolvers as their first pistol.  I feel the same about rifles.  You can shoot up a brick of ammo in a 22 a lot faster than 100 rounds in a muzzle loader.  You need to concentrate on each shot, but you are shooting to hit something.  With this as an addition to the other suggestions you can learn to shoot.  They used to say that to be good at trap you have to miss 1000 clay birds.  When you think on it,  that holds for a rifle in its context in that you have to miss 1000 10 rings.  That is why I think todays best shot are likely better than GGGGgranddad, legends aside.  We can afford to shoot more and practice more.

DP

[Randy Hedden]

There are several things involved in proper form for shooting offhand.  The feet should be placed shoulder width apart and in such a position that when you mount the rifle the sights are inline with the target.  To check this, while at the firing line, take your shooting position and close your eyes and mount the rifle with your eyes closed. When you open your eyes the sights should be lined up and on target.  If the sights are not lined up you must change your shooting position so that the sights are lined up every time you mount the rifle at the firing line.  The shoulders and hips should be directly above your feet.  (Most of us have a slight hunch in our normal standing position).  If they are not directly above your feet then you will probably have to arch your back slightly to get your shoulders over your hips and feet. While the rifle is mounted to your shoulder, you should raise your elbow up a bit to lock the butt of the rifle in place. Some really good shooters I know actually lift their elbow above a horizontal plane. Take particular care to insure that the rifle is not canted when mounted in the shooting position.  Canting of the rifle will throw your shot off even though you think you have acquired a good sight picture.

Breath control is also important to good shooting. When you take your position on the firing line leave the rifle down at arms length. Take a few seconds to relax.  When you are ready take a deep breath and as you bring the rifle up to your shoulder breath out half of that deep breath and then hold your breath while acquiring your sight picture.  If you do not acquire a good sight picture in say 6-10 seconds, lower the rifle to your starting position, relax a bit and try again. The longer you hold the rifle up in the shooting position before getting off the shot, the more the muzzle will move.

Then there is trigger control which everyone has heard about. Squeeze the trigger rather than a quick jerk of the finger on the trigger.

A couple of other things, The hand placed on the forearm of the rifle should be used as a platform for the forearm to lay on.  Actually gripping the forearm can throw your shot off because of applied pressure from your hand even though you don't think you are applying any pressure to the forearm.  The same goes for gripping the wrist or trigger guard of the rifle.  To tight of a grip will apply pressure to the rifle which can throw your shot off.

As everyone already said, you will need to practice. Practice holding and dry firing the rifle at home.  This builds muscle necessary for good shooting.  Practice the proper stance and shooting form at home and at the range.

Lastly, learn to ignore the flash of the pan when shooting a flintlock or you are liable to develop a flinch.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com 

[Roger Fisher]

The foregoing is top notch advice.   ( should follow more of it ) I would add that I noticed we Yankees are too impatient and tend to force the shot i.e I'm the boss here not this rifle

Also, you will end up not even noticing the flash of the flintlock ignition, since you will be concentrating on the sight picture and by the time she goes shes gone!!

[Osprey]

Randy, that's the sort of info I needed.  Done lots of practicing with wood blocks and flints, feel like I've gotten well past the flinching.  Heck, the guns I've built probably have 500 dry fires on them before they've each been completed, always snapping the wood in the shop.  Luckily I can step out the door and shoot any time I want, I'll keep woking on it all.  Thanks all.

[smokehouseman]

I have one more to add to your list of suggestions...... after spending over 30 years in law enforcement the  best shooter were GENERALLY those that were the most physically fit and took good care of themselves.  So as the old saying goes, "do as I say, not as I do".

[Dphariss]

Assuming one is shooting a flint gun, a hardwood block placed in the cock allows the added benefit of the shooter getting used to the cycling lock, when dry firing.

Otherwise, Dan is right on.

I do this on single trigger guns. But just do the trigger on set trigger guns. I do it more for muscle toning and follow through. But I have shot flint for 40+ years and the lock moving is not something I need to work on.
Being in a wind free setting allows working on the best stance for you. Move your feet around. The "back" foot will increase or decrease elevation as you move it for and aft for example. If the gun naturally wants to hang low on the target move the rear foot back a couple of inches.

Also generally speaking holding a firearm past 10-12 seconds will increase the wobble. For one thing you oxygen level will fall since you are holdign your breath.  Shooter should strive to mount the gun align the sights and fire in 10 seconds or so. If much past this unmount and start over. Tough to do since its easy to get stubborn. In dry fire practice you can hold it as long as you want. Just helps tone the muscles. It will also show that holding too long will perhaps lower the score.

Dan

[Paddlefoot]

Randy is spot on regarding the natural point of aim. That is a critical part of shooting. Another thing is to accept your area of wobble if you care to think of it that way. Realize that sight ALIGNMENT is more important than sight PICTURE.  If the sights are aligned you never shoot a bigger group than your wobble. If you lose the alignment your cone of fire gets bigger with range.  If you are not worried about looking non traditional I would suggest you look at an Olympic air rifle shooters offhand position to see how they support the rifle on their upright arm and hand. Most turn their wrist so their thumb is pointed back toward them and rest the rifle across the meaty part of their palm. This is so you dont pick up a "pulse" from the circulation in your hand and you are not using muscle to hold the rifle in position.  Check out the CMP and USA Shooting for articles on position shooting. Last thing is to look at the front sight. The target and rear sight can be a bit fuzzy but you must see the front sight to shoot well.  Have fun and shoot a bunch.

[Daryl]

I haven't been shooting a flintlock for many years, and fight a flinch.  I find it helps to watch where the sights are when the gun recoils. If you can see the gun recoiling off the target, and know where the sigths were linded up as recoil started, you know you didn't flinch.  If you dont' see the gun recoil and rise, you shut your eye - or eyes.

[Mike R]

alot of good advice.  I shot on a college level competition small bore team and found offhand shooting to be the biggest challenge--especially with my short arms.  like others have stressed, position, sight picture, breath and trigger control, and timing are key--practice, practice, practice.    I was 'ruined' by all my .22 shooting over the years--the timing for the trigger squeeze/sight alignment wobble is very different from shooting even a fast flintlock. I am not at competition level with a flinter--not enough practice, practice, practice....

[northmn]

One of the reasons I mentioned the 22 is that nearly everyone has one.  Another thing is that most shooters shoot too much off the bench.  Shooting any rifle offhand helps in shooting offhand.  The Flintlock requires a "follow through" not common to other firearms.  Once you get good with a flintlock, shooting one will make you a better shot with other guns as you "follow through"  Another good form of offhand parctice is centerfire using cast bullets as it helps to shoot a heavier gun also.  The methods of dry firing and everything else is not wrong and should be used but supplementing with a  little shooting doesn't hurt either. 

DP

[Daryl]

Back in the 70's, we shot so much with our muzzleloaders, offhand, of course, it really helped me with a new discipline I picked up, 3 position shooting, full bore.  We shot 3-po at 100 yards, prone, kneeling, standing and my standing (offhand) scores ran 88 to 90% after the first year. It was easy to hit master soon as I stopped using the .375H&H with cast bullets and open sights, and built a real match rifle. Yeah - I'm tooting my own horn- no one else will.   Any offhand practise helps with the smokepoles.

  .22RF practise is very good at developing timing due to most .22's being a bit light and not holding well.

[Dphariss]

alot of good advice.  I shot on a college level competition small bore team and found offhand shooting to be the biggest challenge--especially with my short arms.  like others have stressed, position, sight picture, breath and trigger control, and timing are key--practice, practice, practice.    I was 'ruined' by all my .22 shooting over the years--the timing for the trigger squeeze/sight alignment wobble is very different from shooting even a fast flintlock. I am not at competition level with a flinter--not enough practice, practice, practice....

A 22 with a fast lock time will allow breaking a light trigger when the sight is where you want. Breaking the trigger on a FL, especially a pistol is a mistake.

Dan

[longcruise]

I like Daryl's advice on position.  I've found that closing my eyes and taking up the natural point of aim has helped a lot.  Also, Dan's dry firing routine.

I'll add something I learned from long range high power shooters and that is called a holding drill.  It differs from dry firing in that it involves holding your sights within a specific circle on the wall.  The correct shooting position is assumed and the sights placed on the circle and the front sight held within the circle for about 30 seconds.  The idea is to progress over time to being able to hold within ever smaller circles.  When I do this the trigger is never pulled, but that could be added I suppose. 

The primary idea with the holding drill is physical conditioning.

[Osprey]

If you are not worried about looking non traditional I would suggest you look at an Olympic air rifle shooters offhand position to see how they support the rifle on their upright arm and hand. Most turn their wrist so their thumb is pointed back toward them and rest the rifle across the meaty part of their palm.

This is what I've switched to lately and it's helped a lot so far.

[Mike R]

One of the reasons I mentioned the 22 is that nearly everyone has one.  Another thing is that most shooters shoot too much off the bench.  Shooting any rifle offhand helps in shooting offhand.  The Flintlock requires a "follow through" not common to other firearms.  Once you get good with a flintlock, shooting one will make you a better shot with other guns as you "follow through"  Another good form of offhand parctice is centerfire using cast bullets as it helps to shoot a heavier gun also.  The methods of dry firing and everything else is not wrong and should be used but supplementing with a  little shooting doesn't hurt either. 

DP

I agree and I was not meaning to be critical of your advice--shooting a .22 offhand has definitely helped my offhand shooting in general.  I have been shooting .22s offhand for almost 60 years now.  For a while I practiced holding the flintlock rifle on a small circle of aim as advised by another here--and I believe that does help--both with sight control and building arm strength.   Recently I hurt my left arm/shoulder and cannot at present hold a longrifle for any length of time offhand--getting out of shape, too...but I found that if I use my old target competition stance with the left elbow tucked into my hip and knuckles under the stock between the entry thimble and lock, I can support the rifle enough to shoot OK....

[Roger B]

I remember shooting with an old master bullseye pistol shooter who liked to "frame" his shots.  As he explained it, he would line up his sights above the target & then come down vertically to his sight picture while squeezing the trigger. I wonder if that would work with a flinter?  I've noticed that I need a little "creep" on my set trigger for flint, otherwise I grab & shove the rifle toward the target.
Roger B.

[Daryl]

   Recently I hurt my left arm/shoulder and cannot at present hold a longrifle for any length of time offhand--getting out of shape, too...but I found that if I use my old target competition stance with the left elbow tucked into my hip and knuckles under the stock between the entry thimble and lock, I can support the rifle enough to shoot OK....

I understand many guys use this and I did too, when shooting full-bore. With the muzzleloader with more barrel weight, I find the extra weight works better with the entry-pipe hold.

I'm sorry your shoulder's hooped, Mike - my right was so bad a year ago, that I couldn't lift my right elbow at all. Now, I find I like the position and find the butt stays where it should. This alone, was the reason for a high elbow - to hold the butt in the pocket.

[George Sutton]

There is lots of good advice here. I personaly use the method that Randy Heddon described. The key to learning to shoot offhand is not to get frustrated, if you're having a bad day, pack up your stuff and go home.

Something that not many people talked about is targets. I like the NMLRA six bull target. For me it is the hardest target to win during a competition. For practice I cut them up and fire five shots per target at 25 yards. Average shooters will shoot a 45 on this target. It typically takes a 48 or better to win a big competition. I also use Dan's idea of putting a small target on a wall and dry firing at it. I use a 10 meter air rifle target, it gives you the same sight picture as the six bull. I shoot at least five shots a day on this target. Another good method, if you can see the target is to shoot a hole into a blank piece of paper at 25 yds and use the first shot as your target or point of aim ("aim small, miss small").

Try to shoot in even light and try to do the same thing every time you put the rifle to your shoulder. If you keep changing things you will never get good. Find what works and do it over and over.

You'll know when your getting there when you can call your shot. When the gun goes off you'll know exactly where the shot went. The key is practice, practice, practice.

Push yourself to be the best, remember, second place is the first place on the loser list.

Centershot

[J.D.]

I haven't been shooting a flintlock for many years, and fight a flinch.  I find it helps to watch where the sights are when the gun recoils. If you can see the gun recoiling off the target, and know where the sigths were linded up as recoil started, you know you didn't flinch.  If you dont' see the gun recoil and rise, you shut your eye - or eyes.

My flint lock shooting mentor insisted that I dryfire, with only a wooden block in the jaws of the cock, for a minimum of 15 minutes a day, off hand, every day for a full month. He then insisted that I  flash powder in the pan, for at least 15 minutes a day, every day for a full month. I then progressed to shooting reduced loads, of 30 gr of powder in a 54 rifle, at short range, for at least 15 minutes a day, every day for a full month.

Though it was a difficult regimen to follow, I did pretty much, follow Crow's shooting routine for three months.

Two weeks after completing this training, I won third place in a field of nearly 150 competitors.

My "friends," who scoffed at my desire to shoot a flint gun, derisively  encouraged me to enter that match. However, I beat 'em all...really badly, much to their shock and chagrin. They no longer laughed at my desire to shoot a flint gun after that day.

The key to GOOD practice is learning and applying the basics of good marksmanship that Randy offered, in addition to dedicating a specific time period, every day, or every week for GOOD practice.

I later learned that it takes a minimum of 40 hours of practice to develop good muscle memory. Three months of 15 minutes a day = only about 11 hours, but with continued practice, my scores continued to improve...and yours will too.

God Bless,
J.D.

[northmn]

Another point I noticed. Osprey mentioned using a 45 with 60 grains.  That is not a very heavy combination but for a 45 is plenty.  I used to shoot 45 grains ok.  JD mentioned shooting light charges in his 54 as part of his training regimen.  Most of the veterans shooting heavy guns have a few years and a lot of powder under their belt.  I feel the current popularity of the 40 on these pages is that it is easy to shoot.  Starting out with lighter guns and charges does not hurt.  Shooting bigger guns is a seperate discipline in itself.  As to the elbow to the body in holding the gun some used to claim that with caplocks and flintlocks that it was considered as safe as one had their hand under the ignition.  Never seen anyone hurt doing so but it was a consideration.  I always held out on the forearm similar to what Daryl describes. 

DP