Longrifle from the late 1960s?

[heelerau]

 I have just aquired this rifle, it has a straight Douglas barrel in .36, a lock that I suspect is pretty crappy, does have a fly, but the smallest flint fitted still sits against the frizzen and does not let it sit flat on the pan. Lock only lets off when the trigger is set. Does not spark reliably, springs have been wedged and the frizzen re hardened. The photos are not the greatest, seems ver similare to my Lancaster style long rifle as far as some of the carving each side of the barrel channel, cheek piece. Any thoughts on what it is suposed to be or is it just a sort of generic rifle. I have recently posted some photos in my last post .

cheers

Gordon

[Virginiarifleman]

Looks like you have an original longrifle that someone has tried to refurbish. looks late 1800's to early 1900 or the pictures are throwing me off.

[heelerau]

Mate, my pictures are not very good, it does look like an original, as it was kept in a pretty rough environment, it has patina in plenty!!! I am quite sure it is not an original rifle. I wondered if it may have been an early Dixie rifleworks kit, but I gather there may have been no kits as such available in the late 60s.  It seems to be an early style by the butplate, and it has quite a lot of carving. It mounts nicely to the shoulder, but is muzzle heavy as the barrel is not double tapered.  I have known the rifle since I was 14, and have allways been curious about it as it is the first custom longrifle I had ever seen.  It does have "Century Arms Melb", "(Melbourne Victoria, Australia) crudely punched into a brass plate dovetailed into the top barrel flat. I have spoken to said company who deny all knowledge of it, claiming it is to crude to be something they would sell.  It may have been marked that way to improve its local down under value.  My mate bought it in 1970 at the Adelaide Gunshow, South Australia.
    thanks for having a look

cheers

Gordon

[Virginiarifleman]

it is an interesting Rifle. keep us informed if you find anything out on it.

[Tim Crosby]

 If you post pix here you may get more response. I tried three times but am able to get to them.
Here is the tutorial:
   http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0



   Tim C.
 

[heelerau]

Tim, thanks for that, looks like it worked, sorry the photos are not better, if anyone is particularly interested I can try again when I get home in a couple of weeks.

Cheers

Gordon

[heelerau]

Gents some better shots, anyone know the make of lock, it has a fly but poor geometry, flint holds the battery off the pan.
cheers

gordon

[ottawa]

looking at the pics of the frizzen it looks like it mite of had its face redone or a shoe put on it that might have been to thick and be causing the flint to touch.

[Shreckmeister]

I think both the hammer and frizzen are not original to the lock or maybe just the frizzen and the hammer is original but the flint in it is too big.

[heinz]

Looks like a nice rifle but the Russ Hamm style lock will be a problem.  That style lock works best with just a very small flint, almost a chip.  Get with Bob Roller on what he makes that will fit in the inlet and then lap the barrel out a bit and you will never look back on that purchase.

[Algae]

Whatever you decide to do, that is one dandy rifle111
Al J.

[heelerau]

Looks like a nice rifle but the Russ Hamm style lock will be a problem.  That style lock works best with just a very small flint, almost a chip.  Get with Bob Roller on what he makes that will fit in the inlet and then lap the barrel out a bit and you will never look back on that purchase.

Mate, am looking at a TOW John Bailes lock,  sometimes known as a small Manton.   I have printed out the page from the catalogue, It seems to be the right length, but may be a 16th of an inch to narrow.  I will also have a chat to Mr Roller.  This rifle has won a lot of gold medals in competition, has a lovely Douglas barrel. Pity it is not swamped as it is a bit muzzle heavy, but does mount the shoulder well and hold nicely. Thanks you blokes for having a look.

cheers

Gordon

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I think a Chambers' late Ketland would be a better fit in that mortise.  At least consider it.

Whoever built the rifle had some knowledge and skill.  I think you are on your way to a really nice piece.

[heelerau]

I think a Chambers' late Ketland would be a better fit in that mortise.  At least consider it.

Whoever built the rifle had some knowledge and skill.  I think you are on your way to a really nice piece.

Mate, thanks for having a look, have looked at the late Ketland, and will give that proper consideration as well. I am going to try knapping a small flint back even smaller and see it that gives me a result. Both my other flintlocks are ver ver reliable, hence my dissatisfaction with this rifles current lock.  I am still curious to see if anyone thinks it is representative of any particular  school.


cheers

gordon

[EC121]

Dixie Gun Works has some older parts.  They may have another frizzen

[heelerau]

 Gents, cleaned the inside of the lock and found it faintly marked Russ Hamm, have found the replacement by L&R Lock company, co of TOW.   I have a couple of spare frizzens with the rifle, which I have swapped about the get the best sparker.
     Has anyone had enough to do with these L&R replacement locks?  to offer me a private opinion? It is exactly the same dimensions, but may require some internal adjustments to the lock mortise.  I am in no super hurry at this stage. 
      Still no Idea anyone,  as to what county the rifle may represent? .
 Thanks again you blokes.

gordon

[Ric27]

That is a very nice rifle. These type of guns are so important to the history of modern longrifle building. The builder new what he was doing and spared little in the building and decorating this rifle.

[Ric27]

The Chambers Late Ketland is superior to any L&R. That said the L&R should be an improvement on you present lock.

The more I look and that gun the more I like it. Could you provide dimensions, barrel length, is it straight or tapered, butt width and hight, length of pull etc?

[heelerau]

The Chambers Late Ketland is superior to any L&R. That said the L&R should be an improvement on you present lock.

The more I look and that gun the more I like it. Could you provide dimensions, barrel length, is it straight or tapered, butt width and hight, length of pull etc?

Ric, I will provide you with the dimensions in a week or so when I fly back from work. The barrel is a 40 inch  straight Douglas.  I will check the measurments of the Late Ketland and see if it will fit.  If anyone has the actual measurements, could they please pm me.  I have a couple of Chambers locks and am most impressed with them.

Cheers

Gordon

[EC121]

The Late Ketland lockplate is 125mm x 24mm.  Mainspring and tumbler bridle depth is 10mm.  Center of pan is 48mm from the front of the plate.

[Dphariss]

The Late Ketland is 125mm x 24mm.  Mainspring is 10mm deep.  Center of pan is 48mm from the front of the plate.

Good Grief!

[Dphariss]

Looks like you have an original longrifle that someone has tried to refurbish. looks late 1800's to early 1900 or the pictures are throwing me off.

Its pretty nicely engraved it seems but it has a straight barrel, it has flat head wood screws and its not very dinged up. Looks like they oiled the bore and then let oil run out the vent and into the stock. This is blacken walnut sometimes as seen here though it often follows the grain and makes streaks.
The lock is similar to late FLs and I have seen an original Beck with a similar inlet, thought it now carried a different lock. But the lock is a Hamm copy I think. Which would be about 1970ish. So I think its a much better than average rifle of the 1960s. But at this distance it can be hard to tell.

Dan

[heelerau]

Dan, you are right about the oil, the lock mortise has been pretty badly affected with oil as well. The lock is marked faintly Russ Hamm on the inside, found that when I cleaned the lock innards.   She is a most curious rifle, certainly here in Australia, I wonder if it may have been made up with original furniture. The rifle was bought from a gunshow in Adelaide South Australia about 1970.  Thanks for shewing interest in the rifle.

Cheers

Gordon

[jamesthomas]

The Late Ketland lockplate is 125mm x 24mm.  Mainspring and tumbler bridle depth is 10mm.  Center of pan is 48mm from the front of the plate.

 Good Grief is right, we don't do metric here, try it one more time, this time use English.

[JTR]

Good grief, Australia uses the metric system, so I think the dimensions were given in mm as a courtesy to heelerau.
John