Turkey - Photos Added

[Lucky R A]

     No, not some product, I am looking for a reference or photo of a turkey final on a long rifle patchbox.  A client brought in his rifle with a patchbox ready for some engraving.  The final of the patchbox is a turkey in the place where one usually finds an eagle  etc.  I would like to keep the engraving within a historical reference, thus I would like to look at some original work. Any ideas references would be appreciated.

Thanks,  Ron

[Dave B]

A picture of what this turkey looks like would be helpful. There are a few rifles with bird motifs on the finial a very few are beauties. Most are folkart at best. Diestiel fink sorry for the butchery to the name of the dutch folk art bird used on the chests and other objects in the home. The first one that comes to mind is the Nicolas Beyer turkey finial rifles they are very folksy at best. Silver nail for the eye crude engraving. Page 235 in Kindig's Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in its Golden age
Here is one that was up for auction  a while back.



There are several other bird finials in this book but they are not turkey's but one could use the details to enhance your turkey. The best bird is on page 432 on a rifle by Jno. Schriver. It has good detail and elements again not a turkey but the layout is nice and could be used for your application. if the bird didn't have a fish in its mouth and the beak was shorter it could pass for a turkey. I should think.

[Majorjoel]

Hi Ron, it might help if you could post a picture of your client's patch box.  I have been looking through the red patch box book by Chandler and have found several ideas there. I know the B&W photo's are hard to get a very good look at much of the engraving details, but some show fairly well.  IMO most of Beyer's bird finial rifle's look more like flamingo's to me. The best turkey's are on rifles made by Christian Beck. A good one of his is on page 60,#88.  Of coarse, it could be mistook for a peacock!   

[Dave B]

Jole, is this is one like what your talking about. This is another one of Christian Becks rifles with one of the birds that could be a good source for how to engrave the details of this  turkey.
 

[Lucky R A]

      Here are a couple photos of the patchbox.  It isn't exactly a folk art rendering.  I doodled in a few lines w/ a Sharpie trying ideas to go w/ the outline.   Thanks for your ideas so far; it is starting to come together. Keep 'em coming.
Ron

[Dave B]

there ya go Ron. Thats looking pretty good. I have taken tracings of patch boxes to practice the various options the profile offers then you can transfer the best option on to the prepared surface for the engraving. some where in my archive I have a John Noll finial of a bird that is one of the best I have seen. Lets see if I have it here some where.

[bama]

Ron where did he take the pattern for the box from? Was it his design, or did he copy it from somewhere? If it is your customers design he should be able to give you an idea of what the pattern should look like. if he took the pattern from an original, was it engraved? if none of the above applies, then you have a free license to do whatever you feel is appropriate.

[bama]

Ron

On your sketch I would make the legs longer and show the spurs, I would also make the wing not quite so broad at the shoulder, that would be good for an eagle but for a turkey I think the wing should be slimmer.

[bama]

Ron

Look at a site called can stock photos clip art. There is a sketch there of a wild turkey in the exact pose of your patch box.

[Lucky R A]

Dave, Jim  and the rest of you guys thanks for the input.   The guy who built the rifle made it in 1982, and I believe came up with the design concept pretty much on his own with out consideration of engraving elements.  It is pretty much as you said Jim, free license on the final design.  I have replicated some of John Noll's work and his design elements dictated the outline of the box, on this one, not so much.  Aw heck, I love a challenge.
Thanks
Ron

[Tim Crosby]

 I have a traced copy of a patch box that is very close, same bird, different side plates. It came out of an early issue of Muzzle Blast, late 50's early 60'S. It is not perfect but you can get a good idea of the engraving. If you want a copy PM me.

   Tim C.

[smart dog]

Hi Ron,
Below is a scan from one of my Dover books of clip art.  It is an 18th or early 19th century engraving of a turkey.  It may provide some ideas.

dave

[Don Getz]

Ron....it's early, I just couldn't control myself.   Maybe you should install a nice big mirror on the back of your bench and look
into it.......ha, ha, ha......sorry, it's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee...Don

[Lucky R A]

Hey Don,  If you can't control yourself, I will have to lace your coffee with Southern Comfort---Again!   Watch what you drink at Lewisburg, things might get tough around the "Old Guy section."
Ron

[Robby]

Lucky, you should tell the guy its a pigeon (a legitimate game bird), take it or leave it, there is no turkey in that profile as it stands. 
Robby

[George Sutton]

Hi Ron, unless he's stuck on a turkey, I'd go with a dove.

Centershot

[Majorjoel]

I'd go with the passenger pigeon. Now extinct, but back in the day was in many gun sights. Ron, I'm sure you'll do this one justice no matter what you decide upon! I have to admit that most all of the original rifle's with "bird boxes" have a wide leeway of interpretation as to what kind of bird it is supposed to be. The only exceptions would be the eagle boxes, and some of those might be hawks.....

[Don Getz]

Ron.....on the serious side.    That head does look more like a pigeon than a turkey, no matter what you do will change that.
You have worked yourself into kind of a bind, after you have finished the engraving people will ask the owner "who did your
engraving?"  Sometimes you have to learn to say "no".......Don

[Acer Saccharum]

Keep in mind that most of the early American engravers didn't draw their birds from life, but from copying another's work. There were inherent inaccuracies in this system. Eagles look like turkeys, or even chickens.

I would say folk it up, go for a period drawing effect. If it looks like a chicken, or a dove, so what? It's a turkey.

[Matt / PA]

Hey Don,  If you can't control yourself, I will have to lace your coffee with Southern Comfort---Again!   Watch what you drink at Lewisburg, things might get tough around the "Old Guy section."
Ron

I would just like to state for the record that the "Old Guy Section" is my favorite part of the Lewisburg show.
 
I hope to check out the turkey progress this Sunday.....looks interesting.

[Captchee]

 im still wondering why a short tailed turkey would have a fish in it talons ?

[Pete G.]

There is a good period line drawing of a turkey in Davy Crockett's almanac.

[Brookville]

Ron asked me to post pictures of the final, engraved "turkey".

[bama]

Ron that turned out pretty dang good. Glad you were able to pull it off. The box as a whole turned out vefy nice.

[Kermit]

Depending on how you feel on any particular day, you could tell people it's a grouse.