Verner

[bob hertrich]

Would a C weight barrel be too large for a Verner style rifle.

[Lucky R A]

       I have handled and measured the original and a 46" Rice 50 cal. barrel very closely approximates the original barrel of "The Verner."   There are only two known signed Verner rifles.  Both have been published.  There are many rifles described at Verners, some possibly are unsigned examples of his work, others not so much.  Do your research carefully, some of the "Verner kits" aren't even close.  A few members here have experience attempting to replace or correct furniture and architecture on some of the kits...  Good luck with your ambitious project.   Ron

[flehto]

Although I only build Shuler style BC LRs, a Verner should be as "petite" as a Shuler...so I've settled on the Rice Golden Age 46" bbl in .50 cal. in "B" weight which has a 1" breech.  I've made Shuler BC LRs using 44' "C" weight bbls, w/ a 1-1/16"  breech but they weren't as slim as the BCs w/ the 1" breech.

Pictured below is a Shuler style BC LR w/ the Golden Age bbl....the added length adds to the slimness....Fred

 

[Brookville]

The original Bucks guns I handled at the Mercer Museum in Doylestown, PA had a breech measurement of about .900".  They were approximately .50 cal.  The barrels were very slim.  As Fred points out, a "C" weight barrel is a little heavy for that "school".

Think slim.

[E.vonAschwege]

I agree - an A or B weight swamped barrel would have a better weight and more appropriate breech section for Bucks county guns.  I've never handled either of the Verner guns, but have handled a few Shulers, which varied between 7/8" and just shy of 1" at the most. 

[Don Getz]

Question?........doesn't the original Vernal have a hooked breech?    I seem to remember doing "fake" hook breech plugs for
a Verner reproduction...........Don

[sz]

Looking at the pics of the original A Verner, it sure does look like a hooked breach.

[elk killer]

in the book The American Longrifle,
it clearly shows the original Verner, it shows and states
its a hooked breech

[Lucky R A]

Yes, positively it is a hooked breech, an unusual feature for a gun of this school...so never say never!

Ron

[Lucky R A]

The best set of published photos of the Verner rifle are in Dave Hansen's book, The American Longrifle, it's art and evolution.  If you want to build this rifle this book will be invaluable.   Ron

[moleeyes36]

      ....Do your research carefully, some of the "Verner kits" aren't even close.  A few members here have experience attempting to replace or correct furniture and architecture on some of the kits...  Good luck with your ambitious project.   Ron

I'm one of those members that Ron talks about who is trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.  I've replaced or highly modified every piece of the furniture except the trigger guard which is surprisingly pretty HC.  When I visited Ron in April he showed me how to make the correct ramrod pipes, and he even made an entry pipe for me on the spot as an example.  I used his entry pipe example (which I'm using on my next project, a Shuler this time) and made one myself following his instructions.  He's been patiently leading me through the process for some time now and I finally have the rifle almost in the white.  I start installing the side opening patch box today.  Ron showed me how one should be done when I visited him, and following Ron's instructions and pictures I'm tackling it.     

The Bucks County rifle "kit" was originally purchased just for a new hunting rifle.  Constructed just like it came it would have made a nice looking and quality rifle.  But something that could claim to be a Bucks County style rifle?  Not even close.  At the urging of some of the ALR members, I decided to modify it as much as I could, given the limitations of what I had to work with.  It's been a learning and costly experience.

I also bought Dave Hansen's book at Ron's suggestion and find the sharp detailed pictures to be a great advantage over trying to work from the RCA volumes.  I recommend it for any beginning builder especially if you haven't decided just what school you want to build.

A couple of final points for new builders.  Don't buy a "kit" if you want a rifle that is at least close to a HC rifle.  It's easier and cheaper to start from scratch.  Research the rifle well before you start and don't hesitate to ask questions on the forum.  There are many incredibly knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum (and if you've been on the forum long you know who they are) that will gladly answer your questions and help you stay on track.
 
I'll post picture of the project when it's done.  Be gentle  .

Mole Eyes

[Don Getz]

I own a Stan Hollenbaugh, the lock maker, fowler.   It was made in the early 80's using a 20 ga. barrel which my brother
Dick made while we were working down in the Paris shop.  Stan also has a great Bucks county rifle which he made as a
hunting rifle for himself.  Unfortunately (ha) he made it left handed, but it is a nice gun.......Don

[bob hertrich]

Again, thanks to everybody for the input. This is a great forum for this type of information, which you would not get any other place.

[Brookville]

Bob.  Ron and Fred will tell you that the Bucks "school" is not an easy choice for a first build.  Like the Lehigh, it's either right or it isn't.  I have seen examples done by well known gun builders that either lacked correct details or, most often, were just too bulky.  Fortunately, this forum has guys like Ron, Fred, Taylor S. and Tom Currie who have made excellent recreations of this, unique style.  I can help with photos of details and send you my KRA article on the "school" that might help a little, if you're interested.

I remember following Eric Von A's first Lehigh some years ago.  He put a lot of time into research and questions and was rewarded by a pretty nice example.  You need to do the same.  Research the components and architecture and, as moleeyes said, avoid the "kits" out there.

[bob hertrich]

Brookville, I would definitely interested in your info. That is very kind of you. I have been interested in building a Bucks County for a while but I know that they are difficult to reproduce correctly.