Making locks by hand

[WKevinD]

I really like the idea that it was a combination of guilds that could produce a lock that would "almost" have interchangeable parts but even more fascinating to me is how each guild could produce improvements to the common product and provide a smoother, faster, more easily produced finished part.
One of my favorite "improvements" was the screwless lock, British, 1784 by Jonathan Hennem.
It was held together with"clips and spigots" and could be disassembled with a "spring lifter"
Howard Blackmore shows and describes one in "British Military Firearms 1650-1850"
Looks like a standard flintlock but without internal screws.

[David R. Pennington]

Would like to see pictures of that screw less lock. I would imagine some competition came into play. A few extra decorative file strokes on a spring or bridle might set you above the competitor?

[Acer Saccharum]

Bob, question on locating hard spots, if you know what Lynton meant by that...like after the spring is hardened and tempered? Or while annealed, to find spots that aren't annealed fully?

Anyway, the facets give a spring a much more delicate and finished look. On the frizzen springs, there is oft a lot of decorative file work.

[Dave B]

Here is a screwless lock made by Nock




So I guess the hole in the tumbler is the lock plate bolt hole for the single screw to keep the lock in place

[David R. Pennington]

Fascinating lock. The tumbler is the cock! The lug on the cock strikes the flash gaurd as a stop. Wish I could understand how the clips and spigots worked. Thanks for sharing.

[Bob Roller]

If memory serves me,this screwless lock was called a box lock.
I wonder how lock the flash guard would take a hammering that
a modern competition shooter would give it.
I have seen other locks with a pressed in place sear spring and I
once owned a cased set of French percussion pistols that had this feature.

Bob Roller

[Robby]

Dave B, Are those little wedges holding the axle pins for the cock / tumbler, and sear? Also, assuming this lock was taken off a working gun, how was it held in the lock mortise? There looks to be a clip type arrangement in front of the main spring, not sure how that would work. Is there some kind of clip or snap catch on the stock or barrel that firms up its position in the stock? I have never see one of those, interesting!!!
Robby

[WKevinD]

Robby,
Nock and Egg each had screwless locks. Hennem produced a lock held in place without screws but with "an ingenious catch" (Tower Armouries XII-104) mounted on Egg carbines (1786-1788) These were also breech loading but with a tip up breech. Nock made Fergusons but I am not sure he ever used his screwless lock on that style of breech loader.
I have never seen the "ingenious catch" in person.
Kevin

[David R. Pennington]

Chris, thanks for sharing that link. Fascinating illustrations. Wish I could read French. Looking closely at the second illustration it looks to me to be a machine for grinding the outside profile of a barrel instead of a rifling machine. I see the carriage would traverse back and forth over what looks to be either a small grinding wheel or milling cutter which is driven by the great wheel and rope drive. The center on the breech end looks as if it is designed to hold barrel stationary in relation to the indexing head which I would assume would rotate to grind octagon flats? I don't see any provision for internal rifling rods or cutters.

[Acer Saccharum]

I split off the gold dredge topics. link: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32337.0

Please keep this thread to lock making, thanks!

Tom

[Acer Saccharum]

The lathe and gundrill discussion can be found here: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32346.0

[Long John]

What perplexes me with the whole idea of a "screwless lock" is WHY!  Why go to the extra effort to produce a lock that lacked most (not all) of the screws?  What was the incentive?  Were screws that big a problem in the 18th century?  It doesn't seem as though they were in view of the numerous locks in concurrent production that relied on screws.

Best Regards,

JMC

[Acer Saccharum]

Why Screwless?  I have only guesses:

a) Perhaps it was a sign of quality?
b) Without screws on the face of the lock, it left areas open for decoration.
c) open ended screw holes invite corrosion. screwless locks protected the ends of the holes from the elements.
d) ingenious lock designs were an important selling point.

[Bob Roller]

In the 18th century I would think that high quality bottoming taps would be a major problem. Even with the high quality taps we have today,a blind hole can be a problem.Even with decades of experience I get a bit apprehensive when tapping a hammer screw hole in a lock tumbler.It's also the reason I use a 6x40 instead
of the notoriously weak 6x32. In 1980,I made a new sear and tumbler for a Jaeger lock that was dated 1671 and made by Frederich Riess.It had a thick lock plate and was a blind hole design.I reused the sear pivot screw and had no idea what the thread was.No gauge I have would check it.The hammer screw was an ever weirder thread and I made no attempt to copy the threads but did copy the head.

Bob Roller

[jerrywh]

 Bob Roller.
 I had the same experience a couple of times when restoring some early English locks. I think the Gunsmiths or Lock makers made their own taps and die sets or plates.

[Chuck Burrows]

Dave B, Are those little wedges holding the axle pins for the cock / tumbler, and sear? Also, assuming this lock was taken off a working gun, how was it held in the lock mortise? There looks to be a clip type arrangement in front of the main spring, not sure how that would work. Is there some kind of clip or snap catch on the stock or barrel that firms up its position in the stock? I have never see one of those, interesting!!!
Robby

The clip at the front of the plate slides under screw in the lock mortise which replaced the standard front lock bolt. The back hole just behind the pan appears to be a threaded blind hole for the standard through the stock rear bolt. This was a pretty common method for mounting the lock on post 1800 high end English locks, albeit the rear lock bolt hole wasn't always a blind one. Also as noted the rear lock bolt maybe the one in the tumbler post.

[Robby]

Thanks Chuck!! Been staring at it and staring at it, the Tumbler Post!! Face palm ,
Robby

[Gunnermike]

Dave B, Are those little wedges holding the axle pins for the cock / tumbler, and sear? Also, assuming this lock was taken off a working gun, how was it held in the lock mortise? There looks to be a clip type arrangement in front of the main spring, not sure how that would work. Is there some kind of clip or snap catch on the stock or barrel that firms up its position in the stock? I have never see one of those, interesting!!!
Robby

The clip at the front of the plate slides under screw in the lock mortise which replaced the standard front lock bolt. The back hole just behind the pan appears to be a threaded blind hole for the standard through the stock rear bolt. This was a pretty common method for mounting the lock on post 1800 high end English locks, albeit the rear lock bolt hole wasn't always a blind one. Also as noted the rear lock bolt maybe the one in the tumbler post.

The back hole behind the pan is smooth & the pin is held in place by the retainer plate. The lock is held in the front like you said, and the only lock mounting screw goes into the hammer post, it is threaded.  Note the position of the lock screw here:


What is missing from the photos above is the lock retainer plate.  It is shown here:


This diagram should clear up the questions about this lock mechanism:

Mike

[Acer Saccharum]

Ah! the retainer plate locks the sear on its pin, and catches the two studs of the flash guard, one of which serves as the swivel for the frizzen.

[smart dog]

From George Lovell, principal designer of British small arms into the percussion era, concerning Nock's screwless locks:

"These kind of Locks were manufactured somewhat in the same manner as the French 'Platines Identiques' -- the several parts were made by different artificers in Moulds, Guages, and Tools and fitted together by a separate set of men.  They are formed entirely without Screws; all the Pivots being fixed by small pins in the outward Plate and bearings on the inner one, so that the Cock, Hammer, and Sear work quite free upon fixed centres and on the accurate fitting and true perpendicular position of these Centres with reference to the Plate the whole of the improved action of these locks depends. 

I entirely agree with General Dalbiac in his opinion of the excellence of their construction, and I do not hesitate to state that they are the best Military Flint Locks that have come under my observation.  It is true they give a somewhat cumbrous appearance to the stock, but the principal Bar to their general use is their high Price and the difficulty of procuring workman capable of making them in sufficient numbers to meet the Demands of the Service at large." 

(Blackmore - British Military Firearms 1650-1850)

The locks could be completely disassembled with a spring vise and had fewer moving parts in the action, and fewer external holes.  Henry Nock simply could not make enough of them to meet military demands and they cost too much.

dave     

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

The Nock screwlwss is a lot like the early 19th c cannon flintlocks.  I made a set for the Brig "Niagara" berthed in Erie PA a few years back.  You can see these operate in the movie "Master and Commander".  The tough thing about these is that they only use two springs - the mainspeing is also the frizzen spring.  Normally we balance the spring strength for the mainspring and the frizzen spring independently from each other.  But, with this type of lock they are not independent, so balancing their respective strength is a bit of an interesting challence.

I think that the reason for using a flintlock to fire the cannons on a ship is to be certain that the cannon fires at specific instant.   On land, with a linstock the cannon fires now - or a bit later - not a problem.  But on a rolling ship, an delay could cause the shot to miss by going deep into the water on the downroll, or up to the sky on the uproll.

Jim