Author Topic: Flints, English Or French  (Read 10600 times)

Offline Virginiarifleman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
Flints, English Or French
« on: September 08, 2014, 05:47:04 PM »
What type of flints do we feel are worthy of a fine flintlock. English,French Amber or Saw cut ? I have used all three and in my opinion not much difference but the Prices.

Offline Kermit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3099
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 06:32:42 PM »
I've used them all. A dozen cut flints were bought to try one time, and after the first two shattered, I gave away the others. It may have been a fluke, as they worked in the other fellow's lock.

In order of preference: Rich Pierce Missouri white, French amber, black English. Some frizzens seem to me to like Rich's best, a couple like French amber. I really like the look of the French amber flints. They look good in the cock jaws of a piece on display. Is that what you mean by "worthy of a fine flintlock?"
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline bob in the woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 07:44:35 PM »
I gave up on saw cut years ago. I found them to be unreliable. I prefer french amber, then black english flints.
I hunt bears, from the ground with my flintlocks, and have the utmost confidence in them with those flints.

Old Bob

  • Guest
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 07:58:20 PM »
Although I've used some French flints that gave good service, most that I've used have fallen far short of the quality of a good English flint. They tend to crumble, won't hold an edge. There have been a few that were outstanding but they were the exception. Count me in as an English fan.

Mike R

  • Guest
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 09:41:28 PM »
I see little difference between French and English flints [except color] and either would be correct and proper for a fine rifle or fowling gun. You can find subpar flints in both colors, of course, as natural rocks have variations and knappers have too....
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 09:42:02 PM by Mike R »

Offline Standing Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 667
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 11:18:27 PM »
I have a few of Rich Pierce's white Missouri flints left that work well but heard he had retired.  I use the black English knapped flints.  Luckily I see a vendor 2-3 times a year who allows me to pick thru hundreds to select a dozen or more.
TC
Nothing is hard if you have the right equipment and know how to use it.  OR have friends who have both.

http://texasyouthhunting.com/

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7916
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 04:35:31 AM »
The English has an edge over the french in my guns but the saw cut flints are IMHO a joke.

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9920
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 05:38:06 AM »
The English used a lot of French Flints in the 18th C when they could get them. They spark better in most of my locks and apparently the British Army thought so.
See;
"Eighteenth-Century Gunflints from Ft Michilimackinac and other Colonial Sites" by Hamilton and Emery. 

http://www.mackinacparks.com/books-publications/eighteenth-century-gunflints-from-fort-michilimackinac-and-other-colonial-sites/

Only 6.95 plus shipping
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline okawbow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
  • West Tennessee/ Southern Illinois
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 05:51:14 AM »
I recently bought some 7/8" "Texark" flints made of Texas chert, from Muzzleloader Builders Supply. I have over 40 shots on the first flint, and it is as sharp as ever. I get good sparks and no misfires so far, in a Davis Colonial. They are lighter colored than the English flints, but seem to spark as well, and are cheaper.
As in life; it’s the journey, not the destination. How you get there matters most.

Offline Kopfjaeger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 03:31:38 PM »
I've been using the english black flints for a long time with excellent results. They work the best for me.  I haven't tried the french flints. I'll have to give them a try and see how they work on my flintlocks.
" A godly man and his rifle deprive sleep from the wicked, A christian man who prays is the defeater of evil, A praying man who will fight is the conqueror of nations and the hope of the oppressed "

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15859
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2014, 06:34:05 PM »
Not having used the French flints, I can only comment on the English and Rich's river rocks.  I prefer Rich's flints and am hording the last batch I got from him.  Second choice, for me, are the black English flints.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Frizzen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
  • Phil Piburn
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 01:50:39 AM »
I second Riche's flints.
The Pistol Shooter

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5306
  • Tennessee
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 03:52:14 AM »
I have a few of Rich Pierce's white Missouri flints left that work well but heard he had retired. ...

Rich posted here (some time back) that he was too busy to make flints, nothing about retirement as i recall.  I have some of his and some English. 

The English are prettier, but pretty is as pretty DOES (and i'm still working out lock issues).

If he makes more, i'll buy more.  I'm a SUCKER for knowing the kname of the kguy (or gal if ever) who actually makes my stuff. 
Hold to the Wind

Offline Candle Snuffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 573
  • Traditional Muzzle Loading, Powder, Patch & Ball
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 04:23:48 AM »
I've used Rich Pierce flints and only have good things to say about them, same with the English flints - I like 'em! Haven't used
any French flints and really don't plan on it as the two I use mentioned above work a-o-k! :)
Snuffer
Chadron Fur Trade Days

mjm46@bellsouth.net

  • Guest
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 04:49:25 PM »
I've use English and French. My preference is for French. I tried to order some of Rich Pierce's American flints some time back to try, I got back an email that he wasn't making them any more.

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19559
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2014, 10:07:14 PM »
I'm off an on making flints. Lost half my regular job and took on another part time job so am working 6 days a week at reduced pay.  Doesn't leave much time for collecting rock and making flints.  Hopefully things will turn around work-wise.

I don't care that much what material the flints are made of.  It is possible to get dull flints of any material. Or poorly shaped flints, or flints with internal flaws.  Flints that are too thick, too thin, too humpy, or too smooth topped will function poorly in a given lock.  More on that below.  Asking if French or American or English flints are better is like asking which of them makes better beer.  I guess it depends on the maker of the beer as much as where it is made.

Whether English, French, or American chert, more than half of a flint's useful life is determined by the USER.  A loosely mounted flint won't last long, nor one that isn't mounted well in the first place, so that it will scrape the frizzen.  And a user who knows how to carefully knap an edge to just remove the offending leading edge that is now rounded, will get a lot more shots than someone who renews the whole edge every time the flint gets dull.  Because that heartily-knapped flint will get short in a hurry.

Different locks do well with different thicknesses and acuteness of edge of the flint, so the choice of SHAPE is important in determining how long a flint lasts.  I want a tough, less acute edge on a basher lock like the Harpers Ferry 1803.  I would want a nice thin edge on a finely tuned lock that does not seem to rebound much.

For the beginner flintlock user, there are many mysteries.  But the frontier fella who showed up at the trading post or even the townsman who went to the gunsmith shop had to make do with what was available.  I don't read in period accounts, "Samuel needed flatter topped flints no less than 5/8" or more than 11/16" wide and between 3/4 and 13/16" long.  He could not get any in that size so could not join the hunt.  When the enemy came upon his home he set up his blunderbuss as a matchlock and tried to fire his useless, wrong sized flints as projectiles to good effect, but they apparently went everywhere but on target  and he got kilt."  Ok that was an exaggeration, but my point is you should have a flintlock that is not finicky about flints, and you should be willing to change flints every 20 shots.  That seems to have been the norm for soldiers. 20 shots is a lot of shots unless target shooting.  Most skirmishes probably did not result in 20 shots per man or cartridge boxes would have held more.  We get caught up in thinking we need to get 50-100 shots per flint or our lock or the flints are no good.  That was probably possible only late in the flintlock period with finely tuned and expensive locks, and the gentleman who could afford such fixins could afford a few extra gunflints.

Those are my contrary thoughts on gun flints!   ;D
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 10:10:40 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5335
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Flints, English Or French
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2014, 01:42:36 AM »
I have never used a French flint but have found the English flints and Rich Pierce's flints to be quite satisfactory.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.