Author Topic: venting a drum  (Read 8104 times)

Offline Michigan Flinter

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venting a drum
« on: February 10, 2009, 11:39:16 PM »
I am putting together a southern mountain cussin rifle for a member of our club. I read some time ago about venting the drum to enhance the ignition of the charge. Could someone fill me in on how this is done and if it is worth the trouble. I appreciate all replys.  I'm not so sure this new fangled way of shooting will be around very long. Give me a rock to light my fire anytime . Eric D. Lau   Riverdale Mi.

Daryl

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 12:15:45 AM »
The small vent on the side of the bolster, below the nipple is easily seen in many original English guns.  It was said to reduce pressure - which it most certainly would do but as to improving anything, I can't see it. It's just like enlarging the vent on a flinter as far as I'm concerned. In my MOST humble opinion, of course.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:16:10 AM by Daryl »

Offline longcruise

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 12:30:40 AM »
I think you may achieve the same result using a nipple with a vent.  Don't remember who makes them but they work good!  Also helps fracture the cap loose from the nipple.
Mike Lee

Levy

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 01:04:22 AM »
I think Uncle Mikes makes the 'HotShot' nipple or some such name.  I've used them and they've worked okay for me.  I don't know whether venting the drum helps or not.  I once owned a rifle that had a drum with the clean-out screw vented.  They had drilled a small hole right through the middle of a 10/32 cleanout screw.  It was by a modern maker.

James Levy 

northmn

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 02:20:13 AM »
I did a couple of rifles and quit as it did not show any advantage.  There was some discussion on this awhile back, with most stating it was not worth it.  If one insists, you vent with a #50 in front of the nipple on the forearm side at an angle so it blows away from your face and above the forearm the rifle.  Good way to break a drill bit for a feature that had no real advantage. 

DP

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 03:05:34 AM »
The small vent on the side of the bolster, below the nipple is easily seen in many original English guns.  It was said to reduce pressure - which it most certainly would do but as to improving anything, I can't see it. It's just like enlarging the vent on a flinter as far as I'm concerned. In my MOST humble opinion, of course.

During the conversion from flintlock ignition to percussion ignition somebody noticed that the number of gun blow ups increased considerably.

The vent in the bolster mimicked the action of the vent in a flintlock when the projectile was not seated on the charge and was some distance removed from the charge.

The vent hole used on the percussion guns was smaller than the vents on a flintlock.  It does not give a pressure drop.  But it will act to limit any pressure wave development in a short-started projectile firing.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 05:59:06 AM »
I am putting together a southern mountain cussin rifle for a member of our club. I read some time ago about venting the drum to enhance the ignition of the charge. Could someone fill me in on how this is done and if it is worth the trouble. I appreciate all replys.  I'm not so sure this new fangled way of shooting will be around very long. Give me a rock to light my fire anytime . Eric D. Lau   Riverdale Mi.

I cannot think on one valid reason for vent a percussion. The primary down side is opening the powder charge to the atmosphere. With properly fitted caps percussion guns can be very water proof, unless vented.
As Mad Monk pointed out the British had problems with percussion guns/conversions bulging or blowing barrels that had passed proof or had been in service as flintlocks. But this was the result of barrels made of iron and/or made too thin. Venting softens the pressure curve to something more like a flintlock.
But with modern steels this is not needed.
Drum and nipple guns give me the creeps if not done right the drum can break off. I don't use them.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 02:53:17 AM »
I had a chunk gun one time that had a vented clean out screw in the drum. The fellow I got it from failed to tell me about it but the fellow shooting to my right let me know real quick.
Mark  :o
Mark

Daryl

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 02:57:53 AM »
Further note about the Hot-Shot Nipples.
 I did considerably testing with the 14 bore rifle with both the vented Hot Shots nipples and with standard stainless nipples.  I threw away 1/2 dozen of the hot-shots after several months of rather intense testing to make certain my results were consistant and true. The results were that the Hot Shots dropped velocity averages slightly as well as degrading accuracy by approximately 20%.  I don't recall how much the velocity was - perhaps 10% - hardly anything, but was there, as well as shot to shot variations increased to the teens from 3fps to 6fps or so.

 I initially tried Hot Shots due to with low pressure loads like 3 drams of 3F or 3 1/2 drams of 2F, leaving the caps stuck fast on the nipple after firing. There wasn't enough blow-back pressure in that squib load to lift the hammer off the nipple and open the spent cap's slit sides.  With normal hunting charges caps flared perfectly, but never blew or fragmented. I tried the hot-shots for the sole reason in getting pressure blow to open up the caps, which it did.  What I didn't expect, was the drop in speed across the powder charge range, 82gr. to 190gr., and also the drop in accuracy, again, across the board.  Switching back to solid stainless nipples brought back the accuracy. I learned to put up with prying off the spent caps with my patch knife when shooting squibs in deference to going easy on other people's targets.  

 No, the nipples weren't top-hatted. The lock had a descent buggy whip for a mainspring is all, hard at the start, then easing for the remainder of the movement.  I don't remember if it was the L&R or Davis English Lock.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2009, 03:53:47 AM »
s tried those hot shot nipples yrs ago and quit.  Must of had a reason but its so long ago I can't remember why! ::)

I have shot with a shooter and his cohorts studentsthat had said drum vented out the end of the drum and had to use a flash shield that stood on the ground  This was in a .54 and he shot 135 gr of (I believe 3 F) later cut to 125 (at 25 yds)  I mention this only because he and his friends shooting same style of rifle were/are excellent shots but they did have repeated mis fire problems.  If this was due to the vented drums I have no clue! ???

Offline longcruise

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2009, 04:42:50 AM »
Daryl, those are very interesting observations!  Given that I favor the hot shots, I'm going to give them a brief comparison test over the chrono.  If my results match yours I'll probably drop them also
Mike Lee

Daryl

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2009, 07:07:59 PM »
Mike - the loss in speed was secondary to the loss in accuracy.  They do help raise a cap's petal or two on light loads.  If your accuracy stays with them, by all means, use them.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2009, 07:34:22 PM »
Daryl, those are very interesting observations!  Given that I favor the hot shots, I'm going to give them a brief comparison test over the chrono.  If my results match yours I'll probably drop them also

The Hot Shot nipples are a case of over kill.

I looked at this with my percussion Trade Rife some years back.  Ended up using standard nipples where I drilled a tiny hole which would be covered by an unfired cap.

One small hole did not effect the velocies accuracy.  When I went to two holes I saw the ES grow a good bit.

Daryl

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 07:51:37 PM »
Now that you mention it, Bill - I remember doing exactly the same thing - back in the mid 80's.  I think I used a #30 or #35 drill - fairly small but enough to lift a petal on the cap for removal.  I was a bit more anal back then concerning ballistics and the increase in Extreme Spreads from the low digits to mid 20's was too much for me.  Well obviously, I'm not that picky any more - I shoot only flint guns now.(in ML's ;D)

Offline Dphariss

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 11:14:54 PM »
I think the hotshot nipple is another case of a fix looking for a problem.
Probably whoever cooked this up just needed another "new and improved" product to sell.
Knowing that most gun guys like to try stuff.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Daryl

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Re: venting a drum
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 09:48:05 PM »
I think the hotshot nipple is another case of a fix looking for a problem.
Probably whoever cooked this up just needed another "new and improved" product to sell.
Knowing that most gun guys like to try stuff.

Dan

Just like the slugs - then inlines,  ad-nausium.