Author Topic: The best hand rubbed stock finish ! (Read 44973 times)

Stophel · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:57:40 AM »

I did this gun recently with REAL boiled linseed oil.

www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks/Musketoon

The oil is boiled for about an hour and a half. 1tsp of lead carbonate and 1 tsp of burnt umber added as driers. The resultant concoction is ridiculously thick.

First two or three applications were put on with lots of turpentine. This stuff dries fast, and each coat is dry in a day of sunlight (though I always make sure, and wait longer). The last couple of coats are put on heavily, near full thickness (turpentine must be added just to be able to do anything with it), allowed to stand on the surface till nearly dry, then cut off the surface with coarse cloth (I need to get some burlap for this...).

Real boiled linseed oil is incredibly tough when it is dry, and while water may penetrate (slowly) through the oil, it seems to have no effect upon it. And, if done in this manner, is relatively quick and easy to apply....well, cutting it off the surface is a LOT of hard work and elbow grease, but it's technically not difficult.

Stophel · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:59:17 AM »

Quote from: longrifle on February 18, 2009, 04:54:44 AM

That is really some great looking wood !!!

you know, that is the worst possible thing you could ever say to a gunsmith!

tg · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:39:11 AM »

I like the looks of that Chris where do you get the raw material to make themix, I may try it I have an outdoor area to cook it up in, BTW the wood really sucks

b bogart · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:42:30 AM »

I'd change the phrasing to" the gun looks wonderful in spite of the wood"

Bruce

Stophel · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:01:30 PM »

Quote from: tg on February 23, 2009, 12:39:11 AM

I like the looks of that Chris where do you get the raw material to make themix, I may try it I have an outdoor area to cook it up in, BTW the wood really sucks

Thank you!

www.woodfinishingenterprises.com
www.sinopia.com

Boiling oil is not really "hard", it's just unpleasant. Yes, it can catch fire, too.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:43:18 PM »

Stoph, who is Rhonda Vincent?

Stophel · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2009, 11:36:58 PM »

The Queen of Bluegrass, and absolutely awesome in every way.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2009, 11:42:48 PM »

Have you seen Filomena Moretti?

Ah, off topic, sorry.

I will check out the Queen.

Ah, $#@* off again.

Stoph, it sounds like you've arrived on a finish at long last.

Stophel · « **Reply #33 on:** February 24, 2009, 01:17:01 AM »

I like Spanish guitar music....as long as it's not the kind where the guy smacks the guitar and screams and wails a lot...

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #34 on:** February 24, 2009, 01:18:51 AM »

Quote

....as long as it's not the kind where the guy smacks the guitar and screams and wails

True, but it's OK if Filomena does.

Ben I. Voss · « **Reply #35 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:06:03 AM »

Chris, how much linseed oil do you use to the other two ingredients?

Stophel · « **Reply #36 on:** February 24, 2009, 07:24:28 PM »

1 tsp of lead carbonate (you don't need much) for every pint of oil.

And whatever you do, do NOT add turpentine to your boiling oil. If the oil alone catches fire, you have one or two foot flames. If there is turpentine in it, you get six foot flames of death. Trust me, don't do it. I know it's supposed to make things work better, but I ain't tryin it again.

bigsky · « **Reply #37 on:** February 24, 2009, 07:31:01 PM »

I like the idea of using a crockpot/slow cooker to heat the oil in. It seems it would add a level of safety by redcuing the risk of fire. I'm just wondering at what temperature you are shooting for when boiling the oil.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2009, 10:30:02 PM »

I doubt you could get it hot enough in a crock pot. Maybe a deep fat fryer.

Do this outside, whatever you do.

I think Stoph may be on to something when he says "Don't. Maybe speaking from experience?

Dave R · « **Reply #39 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:28:26 AM »

pineoney

I want to see a picture of the slingshot!

Stophel · « **Reply #40 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:13:08 AM »

Crock pot won't get hot enough. The deep fryer barely will. 400 some odd degrees is needed.

I use a deep fryer thing that I removed the thermostat from. It would keep kicking off just as it was getting hot enough, sooo....

Even with a closed element, and no open burner, the oil can still catch fire. I let it get too hot (with the lid on...I'll leave the lid off from now on), and when I took the lid off, she flared up. Just put the lid back on, and it went out. Unplugged the thing, let it cool of for a while, then started it up again. It's all fine.

My first time I did it, I had turpentine in it. Whoo, what a fireball. I like to have never got it out, and nearly set the house on fire (I was too close to the house).

Absolutely, when you do this, do it outside, away from anything. Keep the proper-fitting lid at hand, along with a fire extinguisher. All you want is a SLOW roll. Just turning over. It does not need to be bubbling or frothing. If it looks like it's getting too hot, turn it off. DO NOT leave it unattended...AT ALL. Sure, it's a boring hour and a half, watching oil boil, but it's better than going in to go potty and coming back out to a flaming pot of oil...

Dphariss · « **Reply #41 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:06:53 AM »

Quote from: bigsky on February 24, 2009, 07:31:01 PM

I like the idea of using a crockpot/slow cooker to heat the oil in. It seems it would add a level of safety by redcuing the risk of fire. I'm just wondering at what temperature you are shooting for when boiling the oil.

Crock pot is not hot enough. Need a deep fat frier. I turn them up as far as they go. This is still not hot enough if adding some resins but will work for most purposes. Some resins require so much heat they are near ruining the oil.
Run it for at least 1/2 hour after the oil is hot enough to smoke.
Something needs to be added to kill the acids in the oil as well. Not sure that lead carbonate will do this though it may. It is important since some store bought oils are pretty acidic.
The can rot treated cloth etc. I use calcium carbonate/limestone.
I do not believe that adding turp to the oil before cooking is needed to volatile for me. Turp is better added just prior to use and then make only small batches. It best to age the turp as well to increase its oxygen content. I am told that properly made oil with properly aged turp will gel in a sealed jar in a day or 3. I have not seen this personally but the source is very reliable.
Lead aids in drying when the humidity is high. It should redden the oil somewhat too.
I don't use it, to lazy to get the lead carbonate etc. Though I have been known to put some oxidized bullets in the pot. But I seldom have high humidity.

Dan

Stophel · « **Reply #42 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:14:45 AM »

I see no need to worry about the acidity of the oil.

When making varnish, I stick with Rosin and Mastic, which will dissolve quite readily in the hot oil. Sandarac has to get too hot, and I simply do not care to try fossil copal, which has to be heated separately.

Benzoine will dissolve easily, but it is absolutely filthy, and I haven't figured out a good way to filter it out yet.

But varnish is best left for the surface. Oil works best for me for filling grain (or, of course, just doing an oil finish alone). Varnish dries hard, of course, and I can't cut it off the surface properly like I can with oil.

I want my oil thick, but I want my varnish left thinner. I can make the varnish really thick too, and it has to be cut heavily with turpentine....more turpentine than varnish, actually. It dries relatively fast, BUT, it gets tacky immediately, I can't rub it out smooth with my hands, it doesn't level, and that just makes things harder on me. On the varnish I have made where I only boiled it for a half hour, it is not appreciably thicker than just plain oil. It flows wonderfully. I can smooth it on super thin (which is an absolute necessity) with my hands, it levels wonderfully and works so much nicer without having to try to scrub it smooth later, worrying about rubbing the color off the corners of the wood. Of course, my smooth varnish takes much longer to dry (several days of good sun to be fully dry, each coat), but I ain't goin' anywhere. It's just for the top coat, and I only need a few applications.

Bruce · « **Reply #43 on:** March 04, 2009, 02:11:00 AM »

I use a paste made of beeswax and linseed oil (3:1 or there abouts) on my furnature and cabinets. Water does not penetrate and it is quite resistant to heat. I use an old cotton tee-shirt to apply and also to rub in and dry it. I also use it on the walking sticks and canes I make. This finish also resists small scratches and nicks. Will be using it on my first gunstock shortly.
BHB

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #44 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:37:17 AM »

Quote from: BHB on March 04, 2009, 02:11:00 AM

I use a paste made of beeswax and linseed oil (3:1 or there abouts) on my furnature and cabinets. Water does not penetrate and it is quite resistant to heat. I use an old cotton tee-shirt to apply and also to rub in and dry it. I also use it on the walking sticks and canes I make. This finish also resists small scratches and nicks. Will be using it on my first gunstock shortly.
BHB

How does your mixture work on open grained walnut>? Must you use a 'filler' prior

PINYONE · « **Reply #45 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:20:02 AM »

I the Great Pinyone must get back to this forum- are yall cooking mullet and hush puppies or rubbing oil into the stocks- I never did anything but rub the linseed into the stock then hit it with a wide propane flame and rub it till it was dry - a little paste wax and it is so good you will slap somebody- TGP

Mad Monk · « **Reply #46 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:21:25 AM »

Quote from: Stophel on February 25, 2009, 05:14:45 AM

Benzoine will dissolve easily, but it is absolutely filthy, and I haven't figured out a good way to filter it out yet.

Stophel,

Found the following in the Erwin Andres book. May or may not be of help to you.

Page 60.

Benzoin Resin
Benzoin resin is found in Asia, and comes into commerce from India and the East Indian islands, and is obtained from the Styraceae. Several varieties of benzoin come into the market. The best quality is the so-called almond benzoin, which consists of white grains caked together ith a brownish mass lodged between them, and which, when it is heated, diffuses an agreeable odor; the second quality shows the white masses less frequently, is of a darker color, and is frequently mixed with many chips of bark and wood. Good benzoin should completely dissolve in strong spirit of wine.

Spirit of wine is now known as rectified ethyl alcohol.

From what I could see in other sources the only way to clean it up if it has the wood and bark chips is to dissolve it in good grain alcohol and then filter it. Then use the alcohol solution where the alcohol will evaporate out of the boiled oil if heated a bit while stirring.

E. Ogre

Bruce · « **Reply #47 on:** March 04, 2009, 05:18:13 AM »

My have used my paste of beeswax and linseed oil on maple, ash, hickory, pine and hemlock.
I have not used it on walnut so I am at a loss to state the outcome on such wood. As in most situations where one is in doubt, a test is always to be recommended.
That being said, I would think that as the oil sort of neutralizes the opaqueness of the beeswax, I would not be concerned, however I would do a test piece first.
BHB

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #48 on:** March 04, 2009, 06:15:05 AM »

I have a rifle I finished in beeswax, and it is glossy, no appearance of finish on the wood, yet it is waterproof as any finish I know.

I heated the stock near a charcoal fire (what's wrong with this picture?) got the wood nice and hot, and flowed the wax on, soaking it into the wood with the heat. As long as the wood is hot, the wax will continue to suck into the wood.

Acer

Mad Monk · « **Reply #49 on:** March 04, 2009, 06:39:05 PM »

Acer,

This thing about wax stock finishes was mentioned in some of the technical books on paints and varnishes.

While you may be able to drive the wax into the pores in the wood with heat the wax finish is not durable in terms of abrasion resistance. Simply handling the wood with your hands quickly wears away wax from the surface. That does not give the water resistance that a solid finish would give.

When you think of the stock and the finish and moisture they break it down into exposure to liquid water. As in rain getting on the wood. Then they go into water in the form of humidity in the air. A non-continous film of wax or finish on the wood gives only very limited protection.

The tech books on wood finishes described the purpose of a finish as it relates to wood.

You have seasonal changes in relative humidity levels. Here in eastern PA we are approaching the time of year when the days warm up rapidly. We will soon begin to see very low levels of relative humidity. Then by July it swings around to where we get into high humidity. Now NO finish will halt or even limit the changes in wood moisture content that are associated with seasonal changes in humidity. In the dryer months you may expect to see wood moisture content down arounf 5 to 8% by weight of wood. Then during the more humid months from late June or early July into Oct. and Nov. that wood moisture content will rise to around 15% by weight of wood.

The wood moisture thing that is most destructive to the wood is the daily changes where one day you might be looking at 20 to 30% R.H. and then a day or two later you would be looking at 90 to 100% R.H. when rain moves into the area. It is these rapid changes that really stress the wood and the function of the finish is to limit these rapid changes.

The gunstock is considered to be an extreme test for a finish because it is nearly impossible to totally encapsulate the wood with the finish. When you look at how many areas of the stock are cut away to mount the barrel, lock, etc. it is difficult to seal the wood to the same degree over its entire surface.

Then throw into that any wild temperature changes that would be associated with carry the gun in and out of a heated building during the winter months.
Remington and a few other gun makers had tried to use the real high-tech expoxy coatings on factory guns. The tales that came out of the Rockies and Alaska were funny. Guys bring such a gun into a heated building after hunting out in sub-freezing temperatures and hearing and seeing the finish on the stock crack.

As I said before. Any finish is a series of trade offs. Just keep in mind that wax finishes work but they should be renewed frequently with handling of the stock.

E. Ogre

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