Only getting a dozen shots before I need to change flints

[oldways]

I'm not sure if it's the flints or me not positioning the flint in the jaws the correct way. The flints are the correct size ( 3/4") for the large  siler lock and I'm using tan deer hide to wrap the flint. The gun fires every time ,but I only get around maybe a dozen shots.Only thing that I've noticed is the flint is loose sometimes. 

[PPatch]

I get a whole lot more shots with my large Siler lock and the flint only requires occasional dressing. I keep it clamped down pretty firmly and with the beveled edge down. Hopefully someone here can analyse your problem. Good luck.

dp

[SCLoyalist]

On an L&R lock, I ended up adding  a little steel shim to the bottom lock jaw so the flint edge would strike the frizzen at more of  a grazing angle.   Prior to that, the flint edge was striking at more of a right-angle, 'smashing' angle.   

The  steps I'd suggest are changing from bevel up to bevel down (or vice versa),  changing from black English flint to amber (or vice versa), checking the flint's angle  when it strikes the frizzen (should hit about 2/3 way up the frizzen, shouldn't hit at a straight-on right angle, should come to rest with flint edge pointing to center of the pan but slightly above the vent where the hot gasses  jet out).

Measure the length of a new flint before you install it and after those dozen shots.  If your flint is getting shortened significantly , it could be getting burned away by the gasses, or the frizzen could be bouncing back and beating the flint to death.   You can check for bounceback by putting a little masking tape on the top of the flint, cocking the lock and pulling the trigger (unloaded gun and no priming).   Check the masking tape for signs of damage, which might indicate the frizzen spring strength needs adjusting.


All that said, a dozen shots is about the number of shots I get before I gently dress the edge of a flint with a knapping tool to re-sharpen the edge, and on a woods-walk I'll check that the flint is still tight in the jaws every few shots.

Good luck, SCL

[Kermit]

You don't say whether you are dressing/flaking/knapping the flint during those dozen shots. I'm guessing not. When you hear folks telling about large numbers of shots from a flint, they are taking steps to maintain the rock. Are you just clamping in a rock and just waiting for it to quit working? There's probably lots of advice here on how to keep it functioning.

[smallpatch]

A couple of answers to get better responses.

Who's lock is it?
What kind of flints are you using?
Has the lock been altered?
With a good quality lock, a good frizzen, and a good flint....... Easily 75 to 100 shots from a flint.
That doesn't mean you won't have to knap it occasionally, but you should be able to shoot it till the leading edge looks like the back.

[dagner]

  check the angle your flint is striking the frizen.the flint is supposed to scrape down it.had the same problem once the flint was coming directly into the frizen making a big grove in it and breaking the flints early.had to heat and rebend goose neck to proper scraping  angle.that is   common on flint  actions.check the old muzzle blast archives.their was a very good article with pictures  describing tuning a flint actions

daf

[Standing Bear]

"... Only thing that I've noticed is the flint is loose sometimes."

I do not like a thin leather to hold the flint in the jaws.  I'm now using a piece of elk leather.  It's not real thick but the flint doesn't jar loose as with a thin piece of leather.

Just my 2 cents
TC

[WadePatton]

I think I read that 55-60 are the degrees you want between the flint and frizzen at contact, that it's not uncommon to have to heat and bend the cock to get the proper angle.

[mark esterly]

you should not need to modify a siler lock.  3/4" is the width of the flint to use but yours may be too long.  at half cock there should be space between the flint and the frizzen. the space of three of four playing cards is good. if it's too long you can notch out the back or grind on a diamond wheel.  your leather also may be too soft and gets compressed in use and then the flint is loose.  try a harder leather or wet the leather with an oil and tighten down the screw.

[C Wallingford]

I'm not sure if it's the flints or me not positioning the flint in the jaws the correct way. The flints are the correct size ( 3/4") for the large  siler lock and I'm using tan deer hide to wrap the flint. The gun fires every time ,but I only get around maybe a dozen shots.Only thing that I've noticed is the flint is loose sometimes. 

Check the length of the top jaw screw. I had one that bottomed out and would not tighten the flint. Ground some off the bottom of the screw and fixed the problem

[oldways]

Thanks to all of you who replied,your respones are and have been very helpful. Shooting flintlocks is new to me,so I still have alot to learn. I'll get some thicker leather the deer hide is on the thin side. The flint seems to be striking the frizzen at the height you mention and I have good scraping on the face. How often should I check the flint when shooting? I still need to learn how to knap the flint to maintain a proper edge to get spark.

[Standing Bear]

Where r u located?  There may be a flint shooter near by. We always enjoy helping a new convert and just visiting about spark locks
TC

[oldways]

I live in north east Ohio.The log cabin shop in Lodi is about 35 miles west of me ,that's where i purchased all the parts and made the rifle. The fish and game club i belong to doesn't have any black powder organized shooting. I sometimes run into someone who shoots black powder ,but its more in-lines or percussion. I shoot all three types of rifles.

[Standing Bear]

There are a lot of members of the National ML Rifle Assn in Ohio and a dozen or so field reps.  There are at least 2 dozen Ohio club shoots listed in the Muzzle Blast Jan 2014.

TC

[hanshi]

With enough experience under your belt you will almost always know what the problem is; sorta like telling what's wrong by "sense of smell".  While it won't be that easy ant least the advice you read on this forum will prepare you to "sniff out" the problems.

[oldways]

Removed the lock today and looked at the many things all of you suggested. The jawscrew looks like it could be a little long. Thicker leather may help,plus keep the flint from coming loose. I'll move the flint a little closer to the frizzen and check it after a couple of shots.Kermet you are correct I have not dressed the flint during those dozen shots,but flintlocks are new to me and I don't know what to expect as far as these things go, that's why I'm asking all of you that are experienced for your advice and help. What all of you  :)have given me has been and is very helpful and I DO THANK YOU.

[Curt Lyles]

qldways  Make sure you cover the top of the flint with the leather as that will protect it from all the bouchin the frizzen does,plus youll be able to see the marks left by the frizzen.  curt

[SCLoyalist]

but flintlocks are new to me and I don't know what to expect as far as these things go,

Not that it will answer every question that might come up, but Eric Bye's  book "Flintlocks -A Practical Guide" might be a useful reference to buy or borrow.

[oldways]

Curt thanks for the advise,I need to get some thicker leather. I should have saved my old boots and gloves I tossed . SCLoyalist thank you, read your reply and looked it up amazon and crazycrow have it. I'll put it on my wish list for my birthday next month                                                                                                   

[WadePatton]

Curt thanks for the advise,I need to get some thicker leather. I should have saved my old boots and gloves I tossed ...                                                                                       

In my experience gloves are a bit soft, boots a bit thick (of course one can thin them) and i've settled on using the old tongue protectors that are left over when i have my boots resoled.  The leather is well-abused and seasoned by then.  Also, installed damp it forms up nicely.  Heck it takes a damping to flatten it back out for cutting.

[Dphariss]

I'm not sure if it's the flints or me not positioning the flint in the jaws the correct way. The flints are the correct size ( 3/4") for the large  siler lock and I'm using tan deer hide to wrap the flint. The gun fires every time ,but I only get around maybe a dozen shots.Only thing that I've noticed is the flint is loose sometimes. 

Flint should not shoot loose and most Silers run best bevel down. There are number of things that cause flint eating. On the Siler put as dab of grease  on the frizzen spring bearing surface if you don't already this can reduce stress on the flint. It could be the frizzen is a little soft or the hammer casting is a little "off" in its geometry hard to say from this distance. But generally Silers are not hard on flints.
The other thing to try is to cut the leather pad long enough that it extends out over the upper surface of the flint and see if its marked by frizzen rebound. If so having the leather there make stop flint breakage caused by frizzen rebound.
Frizzen rebound with this force can be caused by a weak frizzen spring, still as I noted its hard to tell from here.

Dan

[Pete G.]

You should be able to get at least 50-60 shots from a flint without having to knap. If it does quit sparking examine the leading edge closely. Usually you will find a small shiny spot where the flint is riding on the frizzen. Chip away this small place and it will expose the rest of the edge to the surface. It is not unusual to get upwards of 100 shots out of a flint on a well tuned lock.

The flint becoming loose quite often points to frizzen rebound. This can be a tough problem to solve. The easiest solution as mentioned above is the longer flint leather, but the permanent solution could involve different spring tension or modifying the foot of the frizzen so that it goes further forward before it hits the feather spring. Make certain that you have the proper lubrication in the proper places. With the right leather and lubrication sometimes a lock just needs some time on it before it starts to behave.

[navygunner]

Like oldways I be a rookie when it comes to flint so I've followed this thread with interest while I wait on my short smoothie to be assembled. The forum is loaded with info and some great eye candy.

NG

[chuckm]

oldways
you have a PM

[oldways]

Well I took a little trip west today with my rifle to the log cabin shop. I told OZ what was going on and he looked things over. I got another piece of leather and put a new flint in. I did find out that the screw that holds the cock in place was loose, could have been some of the problem. OZ said function of the lock is fine ,flint proper distance ,leather ok ,face on frizzen looked good, function of frizzen and frizzen spring was good,and good amount of spark,so I guess the rest is up to me. I've got a month till doe season comes in I'll keep work en at it.THANKS TO ALL!