Rifle weight

[little joe]

 Need a opinion. Due to shoulder,arm and elbow issues I need a lighter rifle. At 7.5 to 8 lbs. Should I have a shorter heavy bbl. or a longer skiner bbl 40 to 45  cal. and 13.5 pull ? What do you guys think?

[Acer Saccharum]

You can have a long skinny barrel; but if you want to hit your target, I'd suggest a heavier contour and shorter to save weight. 32" minimum, to 38" max.

If you shorten the pull, that brings the center of gravity back toward you. But stock design has a big effect on comfort when you shorten the pull. A lehigh or a bucks county would be a killer on your cheekbone and the thumb-over-the-wrist will take your nose out every time.

The NY style target gun, while really ugly with the wrist drop at the breech, (I live in NY, and am embarrassed by our stock designs) provide a certain level of comfort with a short pull. Those trigger guards with all the cast-in finger grips act like a pistol-grip.

[Acer Saccharum]

I am not opinionated. 

[E.vonAschwege]

I have an 42" A weight .40cal Lehigh with a 13 5/8" trigger pull and weighs 7.5lbs.  It's a real sweet heart to handle, and in .40 you don't really feel any recoil on your shoulder.  More and more I'm leaning towards shorter and slightly thicker breech sections for a lightweight and better handling gun in larger calibers.  Opinionated Tom built a rifle with a .62cal 31" barrel http://flintrifles.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/hello-world/, it feels light in the hands (I don't know its actual weight) and is a lot of fun to shoot - I want one like it someday. 
-Eric

My A weight .40 barreled Lehigh

[Acer Saccharum]

I want one like it someday. 
-Eric

Call me. 

[Acer Saccharum]

That gun was built with an RT Adams jaeger barrel. It's breechy but the balance is just perfect.

[Dennis Glazener]

Need a opinion. Due to shoulder,arm and elbow issues I need a lighter rifle. At 7.5 to 8 lbs. Should I have a shorter heavy bbl. or a longer skiner bbl 40 to 45  cal. and 13.5 pull ? What do you guys think?

My arms and shoulders are ok but I still think a 38 lnch B profile in 50 caliber is thd best handling rifle I have carried and I havd had every thing from 44 to 32 lnch barrels.
Dennis

[stuart cee dub]

Acer, You're right about the New York target rifles being unloved .They are the ugly step children of this forum.
Yet they if you can get beyond the look ,the stocks are very ergonomic and make a great target rifle.
With the shorter barrel peeps can compensate for the short sight radius as well.

[jerrywh]

 I agree with Dennis. The best handling gun I ever had was a 38" b weight 50 cal.   

[Turtle]

 I have a reproduction half stock replica of the first Remington production rifle based on the one at the Remington Museum. Sure, the perch belly stock is ugly, but it fits great. I also never have met another person shooting the same rifle.
                                  Turtle

[bob in the woods]

I have built more 50 cal rifles with B weight 38 in barrels than anything else.  I kept one in the shop for folks to handle, and even if they came in wanting something longer, many ended up ordering the .50 B in 38 in
Best deer rifle in the woods you could want. IMO

[Ed Wenger]

The Rice Southern Classic profile barrel is an excellent choice for a light weight rifle.  It's essentially an "A" weight, 42" length, and can be purchased in .50 cal.  Just my two cents, but it makes for a slender, light piece, and is very accurate, at least that's been my experience.


       Ed

[Dphariss]

Short barrels have a shorter sight radius and a faster wobble than a long barrel does.
The longer barrel will swing slower and thus is easier to shoot well off hand.

Dan

[Virginiarifleman]

I had always purchased straight barrels for my builds. and liked the heavy weights. then I got my first 44" swamped 54cal, ill never go back to a straight barrel. the balance is fantastic.

[iloco]

I am having a rifle built with a 44 inch Rice A weight swamped barrel in 40 caliber.
 I like those A weight  swamped barrels.

[coutios]

  Barrel "style" will be dependent on what your going to do with the rifle... IMHO...

Dave

[Turtle]

 I hadn't heard of the .50 southern classic. It got the wheels turning. One could make a sweet light hunting gun with one! What style gun would you recommend considering correctness and recoil considering its lightweight?
                                      Thanks,Turtle

[Long John]

Joe,

Unlike Acer, I AM opinionated and reserve the right to be the only person who thinks my way.

In my opinion, since you asked, if you want a rifle to target-shoot off-hand and have difficulties with heavy rifles then get a rifle with a looooong swamped barrel that meets your weight criteria.  The average stock with lock, etc. will add about 3 pounds to the barrel weight, unless its one of Acer's "chubby-guns".

For a rifle to hold steady you need angular momentum.  Momentum is mass multiplied by lever-arm.  (Ike Newton worked all this out.)  So, for a given weight, a long skinny rifle will develop greater angular momentum because of the longer lever-arm.  To compare two different options multiply barrel weight by barrel length.  That will give you a rough estimate of the relative angular momenta of the two different barrels AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THE SAME PROFILE.  If you are comparing swamped barrels this will work too.

You can build a good handling rifle with a short and heavy barrel but you will sacrifice stability over a rifle of the same weight with a longer barrel.  You can build a rifle a light rifle with either a short or long barrel but the one with the longer barrel will be inherently "steadier" when shot off-hand.  A swamped barrel will give you far better balance for the same weight and a lighter barrel for the same degree of stability.

That's my opinion.  There are a bunch of folks that think I'm nuts. That's their right. 

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[stuart cee dub]

As my pal Gordy says ''weight is your friend when it comes to a target rifle''.

As a right handed shooter ,my left upper arm is tucked in to my rib cage which helps support the weight of a heavy rifle (cause that was the way I was taught now it's ingrained habit ) .
Shooters fatigue as the day progresses is also a factor as does how you hold your rifle as is upper body strength .

I love the balance of a swamped barrel but if we're shooting for money I'll pull out a straight barrelled job.

The Bevel bros had an article about the math of the longer sight radius when they were still being published in Muzzleblasts. My takeaway from the article was that longer barrels did not add that much improvement as a percentage.

I find that the wind is more of a problem ,pushing the long barrel off the target as it acts like a sail .

My current stand up -and -shoot money gun is almost 10 lbs, 35'' barrel ,40 cal .It's a real pig .But that's just how I solved the problem,(well most of it anyway,.45 cal would have been a better choice in retrospect ,and a tad less drop for a better cheek weld).

For an all around gun swamped is preferred ,they make nicer looking guns .''B'' in a 50 at 38'' is too light for me but I like the length . A ''C'' weight in 50 at 40'' makes a nice gun .Originals didn't have that much swamp either from the ones I've held .God bless modern machining.

Regards Stuart

[Bob Roller]

A rifle credited to Daniel Boone is in the Huntington WV Museum of Art and it has a 51" barrel,tapered and flared and it handles perfectly (to me). It is 45 caliber with little or no use use being evident. The lock is similar to the L&R Durs Egg and the stock might be a European walnut.I think the whole gun is European,maybe French but it is a nice one no matter who made it.

Bob Roller

[Don Getz]

When we designed the original Isaac Haines kit it was done with a Transition B barrel,
38" long.   In 50 cal. it was real light.  You also had to be careful in doing the underlug
dovetails.  In the initial kits, we supplied the barrel with the dovetails cut.  This is going
way back into the early 80's, back in the good times..........the Daniel Morgan shoot
down in Winchester, big crowds at Friendship, etc............Don

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Turtle, I am building a M. Gillespie style rifle with the .50 Southern classic.... Very light and nice balance even with no buttplate.. begin to go tho the woods this fall!! Look up M. Gillespie in the Library on this site and see an original 1810 or so gun.

[Turtle]

 Thanks! So if I start with a southern Mt blank, inletted for this barrel I will be on the right track? I have built a TV Manifacturing blank squirrel rifle that I like. Recoil on a curved butt plate held on my arm treats me better than on my sensitive shoulder. Lock recommendations? Chambers late Ketland?
                          thanks,Turtle

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This rifle, built by Albert Brown in the late 70's or early 80's, I think, has a 42" Green Mt .45 cal barrel.  It weighs 8 pounds 13 ounces.  It holds very very well for offhand shooting.  The rifle belongs to by bro, Daryl.  What constitutes the perfect weight and balance for one has nothing to do with what works for another, so it is pointless to say which is better.  But this is a good example of a rifle that suits a lot of shooters.

[Ed Wenger]

Yep, I think a Chambers late Ketland lock would be a nice choice....


         Ed