Revolutionary War Side Knives

[mstriebel]

Hi All,
I have managed to educate myself enough over the past few years so that I have a passable knowledge of 18th and 19th century longrifles.  However, in looking at Revolutionary War era antique side knives, I quickly realized I was in over my head.  I thought a good first step would be to see if some of the experts on the forum might be able to point me in the right direction to better educate myself .

I have a sixth great grandfather that served as a lieutenant and later a captain from 1779-1783 in the George Rogers Clark Illinois Regiment of Virginia.  He was born in eastern Virginia and migrated to western Virginia as a young man where he eventually joined in 1774 James Harrod's men that later participated in the Battle of Point Pleasant.  In 1778, he joined Clark's Illinois Regiment of Virginia, in which he served for the duration of the war.

What I have been seeking is a side knife that would have been typical of the type he might have used from 1774-1779 before Clark's men were finally issued uniforms and had their equipment standardized to at least some degree.  In looking for a reference of what may be typical side knife of the era, I have seen some highly recommend George Neumann books.  I have then seen others say much of what he categorized as Revolutionary Era side knives were actually from much later.  Then when I look at knives offered by antique dealers that are supposedly from the era, I have no idea how someone would reasonably be able to know if it was a legitimate knife of the era or just something made in the 1980s to look authentic.

Would anybody on the forum be able to recommend some good references that would show:
1) examples of genuine side knives of the era as well, and
2) some good rules of them to use to categorize knives and better determine from which era a particular style of knife was most likely was from

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Best Regards,
Matt 

[Virginiarifleman]

Look at some of Madison Grants Publications.

[gizamo]

Ken Hamilton makes a correct trade knife and sheath at a reasonable price.   Same goes for Wick Ellerbe.

[LRB]

  You are unknowingly asking for a lot more than is really known. Other than the very common and wide spread proliferation of imported trade knives, there are but few examples of other knives that can be positively documented to that time. I can give you a few presently accepted basics of what to consider, and others here can add to what I may neglect.
   Guards are most often found only on daggers. The use of brass on knives is rare to non-existent, except in the case of broken sword knives. Retaining pins of other metals than iron, rare to non-existent. Wood, cow horn, and bone most common grip material. Antler grips apparently rare, but do seem to have been used on occasion. Blades of thinner stock than we commonly think appropriate today. Folding knife blades turn up commonly in archaeological digs. Ricassos on blades other than broken swords would be rare. American smith made blades commonly slightly convex in cross section, but probably not always. Do some research on 18th c. knives, and you will find but few that are iron clad documentable. We know by the vast amount of relic blades found in eastern  regions, that the most common knife was a trade knife. Scalpers and butchers. They were cheap and usually available somewhere in most parts of the country.

[Shreckmeister]

Wick, thank you for that information.  It makes a good summary for reference.  I bookmarked it.

[mstriebel]

Thanks to all for the good information.

Virginiarifleman, I have just purchased online The Knife in Homespun America by Madison Grant, and I will look forward to learning more about the subject from it.

LRB, that's a lifetime of information you condensed into one paragraph.  Many thanks for sharing your knowledge on the matter.  As I have skimmed through some of the supposed "genuine Revolutionary War era side knife's" that I bookmarked as being for sale from various antique dealers, it is clear that most dealers need to do a bit more research before they try to peddle off knifes that has very few of the characteristics one would expect from a knife of the era as being the genuine article.  The interesting thing I did find is that as their asking price rises and the dealer adds more fluff in their description the less they seem to match the characteristics you describe.

 

[jrb]

The poured pewter or lead bolsters that are so common today on contemporary "frontier" knives were apparently never used on 18th century fixed blade knives.
So far, at least, I've been unable to find any evidence of them in archaeology collections or reports.

[LRB]

The poured pewter or lead bolsters that are so common today on contemporary "frontier" knives were apparently never used on 18th century fixed blade knives.
So far, at least, I've been unable to find any evidence of them in archaeology collections or reports.

  I have found the same as you, but will not completely dismiss them quite yet. I will caution mstriebl on Grants book. A great book on early knives, but many seem back dated farther than they may actually be. Gordon Minnis's book is also good, and he is a bit more careful about the dating. Unfortunately  it is not always easy to date such items, unless marked in some manner that does date it, or has indisputable provenance.

[crowbarforge]

Excellent information and knowledge shared there. Thanks gents.

[Chris Treichel]

If your relative was an officer he would have been expected to carry a sword and not a side knife. Perhaps a cutteau or hunting sword for one from the Virginia Infantry would be appropriate.  Another implement common to junior officers was the spontoon for dressing the lines.

[Salkehatchie]

  You are unknowingly asking for a lot more than is really known. Other than the very common and wide spread proliferation of imported trade knives, there are but few examples of other knives that can be positively documented to that time. I can give you a few presently accepted basics of what to consider, and others here can add to what I may neglect.
   Guards are most often found only on daggers. The use of brass on knives is rare to non-existent, except in the case of broken sword knives. Retaining pins of other metals than iron, rare to non-existent. Wood, cow horn, and bone most common grip material. Antler grips apparently rare, but do seem to have been used on occasion. Blades of thinner stock than we commonly think appropriate today. Folding knife blades turn up commonly in archaeological digs. Ricassos on blades other than broken swords would be rare. American smith made blades commonly slightly convex in cross section, but probably not always. Do some research on 18th c. knives, and you will find but few that are iron clad documentable. We know by the vast amount of relic blades found in eastern  regions, that the most common knife was a trade knife. Scalpers and butchers. They were cheap and usually available somewhere in most parts of the country.

Absolutely concur!  A ton of material in one easy to comprehend paragraph.  Thank you Wick!