Author Topic: photo of Sutter lock  (Read 17198 times)

Mike R

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photo of Sutter lock
« on: February 12, 2009, 08:11:04 PM »
Here is the $5 lock my friend found at a flea market--how it got to Lousyanna I do not know.  Marked W.G. Sutter, Ruffsdale, Pa:

lew wetzel

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 08:31:59 PM »
tell your friend i will give him $8.00 for it.that way he can get his money back and make a few dollars......lol
thats a very cool lock...

Mike R

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2009, 10:24:02 PM »
tell your friend i will give him $8.00 for it.that way he can get his money back and make a few dollars......lol
thats a very cool lock...

my first thought, too, but unfortunately he is an old time gunsmith himself and recognizes its value, if not exact worth.  I hinted to him that a Bedford squirrel rifle in .36 was on my wish list....

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 09:33:49 AM »
Do you think your friend would be interesting in selling this lock at all?  If not I can tell you quite a bit about it.  To start out the makers name is Worthe Sutter and he produced guns and locks from around 1940-1979 when he passed away.  Made by hand using older methods.  There are quite a few locks around but not many total guns.  It's a very nice example of his work but by far one of the more produced ones.  His higher valued ones have quite a bit of silver inlay.  I'm somewhat of a collector of his work and if it is for sale you can e-mail me @ zizback025@yahoo.com 

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 05:27:57 AM »
I'm sorry... I didn't mean to come in here and offend anybody.  My name is Amanda and i know the Sutter family very well, I am dating one.  I actually live on the land where his shop once stood.  And yes I know ppl who are interested in purchasing stuff made by him.  I recently started just trying to find information on him.  To maybe put together a protfolio or album together for the family.  But while doing that I must have gotten a little ahead of myself.  It was very hard for me to find any info on the internet at all about him and when i found this site last night i got a little excited because he was mentioned so many times.  There is so little known about him besides family stories and what his sons and daughters (my boyfriends father, aunts, and uncles) have in their heads.  Like I said I'm sorry if I offended you in any way I had no intention in doing so.
                                                                     

Offline Bill of the 45th

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2010, 06:13:23 AM »
Razzgirl, don't take offense, and most all welcome.  We're actually a pretty friendly bunch, but we do like introductions and a little background.  We all are interested in makers, and absorb as much info as we can, wether they be the old masters, or the more recent ones like Mr. Sutter.

Bill

Again welcome, and hope you become a regular contributor. 
Bill Knapp
Over the Hill, What Hill, and when did I go over it?

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2010, 06:36:01 AM »
It's ok no offence taken at all, and thank you for setting me straight.  I tend to dive in head first when I get really excited about things.  Like I said there isn't much info written down at all about him and i believe there should be.  And some of what I have come across is quite wrong.  Like when i replied to that one post on here about the urine comment.  That offended my boyfriends father quite a bit.  And I will stick around on here as long as I am welcome and I am willing to answer any questions about Worth and his work to the best of my knowledge and what I can't answer on my own I am willing to ask the family. 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2010, 02:14:59 PM »
Don't worry, this is pretty much a grumpy old man club. You'll fit right in if you don't let these old men push you around. ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline T*O*F

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 05:07:47 PM »
Quote
There is so little known about him besides family stories and what his sons and daughters (my boyfriends father, aunts, and uncles) have in their heads.
One cannot put a lot of credibility in what people have in their heads.  They are based on perceptions of a specific event in time, as they interpret it.  An example:
When I was 11 and my brother was 6, we went on a vacation to the Lake of the Ozarks.  At a recent family gathering,  he said, I still remember the time you tried to drown me.  He believed that for over 50 years.  In reality, he didn't know how to swim then and I had just learned that year.  He would jump off the back of the dock and could dog paddle just enough to go 5 feet or so until he could stand on the bottom.  Then he decided to jump off the front of the dock, which was 12 feet farther out.  He couldn't make it back and started to drown.  I jumped in and floundered us both to shore and saved his life.  In his mind, he only remembered the drowning part with me holding him across his chest.

Events are only snapshots in time based on the individual perceptions of the people involved.  A researcher can only record them.  Their credibility may be suspect.

Quote
And some of what I have come across is quite wrong.  Like when i replied to that one post on here about the urine comment.  That offended my boyfriends father quite a bit.


I laid that groundwork to say this.  At the time of the incident mentioned, your boyfriend's father was but a young lad.  Youth are not always privy to things that their elders do.  The person who made that posting related a personal, 1st person event that he experienced.  He is a highly respected, professional researcher and noted author in the muzzleloading field and was a friend of Mr. Sutter.  He has no reason to fabricate rumors of events he experienced personally.  Rumors grow, not from events themselves, but by those who repeat the story with their own embellishements, and grow exponentially as they are passed on over the years.

If you aspire to be a "serious" researcher, then you must learn to set aside the bias of others.  That is why researchers seek to record 1st person events, because secondary and tertiary sources often contain biased perceptions or interpretations.  Thus, you cannot allow the indignancy of your boyfriend's father influence anything you might seek to record.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline rich pierce

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 06:38:04 PM »
Glad to have you on board Razzgirl.
Andover, Vermont

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2010, 09:06:55 AM »
Ok, let me elaborate... He was offended by the part about his sister.  I'm sorry I'm not "one of those ppl" who choose to write a 20 page essay on a topic in a chat forum.  That's just not who I am.  I am here to learn and to answer questions.  If you don't like me just please refrain from trying to make me feel bad or stupid.  It doesn't work.  I don't force ppl to read what I write.  I will not be chased away by somebody who knows how to copy and paste.  I can take criticism quite well except for when ppl attack every word I say instead of trying to educate me and help me understand.  Like I said I am here to learn.  And I am very appreciative of the people who have welcomed me and taken the time to explain to me where I was wrong.  Thanx again...      Amanda

dannybb55

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 01:53:25 PM »
Rough start, but welcome.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2010, 02:00:11 PM »
Ok, let me elaborate... He was offended by the part about his sister.  I'm sorry I'm not "one of those ppl" who choose to write a 20 page essay on a topic in a chat forum.  That's just not who I am.  I am here to learn and to answer questions.  If you don't like me just please refrain from trying to make me feel bad or stupid.  It doesn't work.  I don't force ppl to read what I write.  I will not be chased away by somebody who knows how to copy and paste.  I can take criticism quite well except for when ppl attack every word I say instead of trying to educate me and help me understand.  Like I said I am here to learn.  And I am very appreciative of the people who have welcomed me and taken the time to explain to me where I was wrong.  Thanx again...      Amanda
I told you it was a grumpy old man board. But you're doing fine! ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Fullstock longrifle

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2010, 02:36:44 PM »
Welcome Amanda, I think your holding your ground pretty well here.  By the way, I can understand why your boyfriend wouldn't like the comments about his sister, that wouldn't make me very happy either.

Mike R

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2010, 03:35:54 PM »
Do you think your friend would be interesting in selling this lock at all?  If not I can tell you quite a bit about it.  To start out the makers name is Worthe Sutter and he produced guns and locks from around 1940-1979 when he passed away.  Made by hand using older methods.  There are quite a few locks around but not many total guns.  It's a very nice example of his work but by far one of the more produced ones.  His higher valued ones have quite a bit of silver inlay.  I'm somewhat of a collector of his work and if it is for sale you can e-mail me @ zizback025@yahoo.com 

I'll ask him.

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2010, 06:54:27 PM »
Thanks guys.  And If anyone has just pictures of any Sutter locks or guns it would be appreciated if u could send them my way.  I'm trying to put together something for the family.     Many thanx again,  Amanda

Offline B. Hey

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 06:29:13 AM »
Welcome aboard, Razzgirl ... I'm relatively new here as well. I "lurked" the site for years and finally joined. Amazing amount of knowledge abounds in these threads ... and I have a feeling you will be one of the positive contributors. Take care .. Bill Hey

Offline Old Ford2

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2010, 06:26:58 AM »
It is nice to see young blood here and interested in this hobby and lifestyle.
There are many of us that caught the bug in the 60's, 70's and  80's , but sadly very few are filling the ranks to carry on the tradition.
So Razzgirl welcome, and please contribute as much as you can, and besides there are far too many grizzly old rascals here anyway.
Old Ford
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Let the Lord pick the good from the bad!

Offline B Shipman

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2010, 07:44:51 AM »
Amanda, this may be of interest. The name Sutter rang a bell. In the 1976 Dixie Gun Works catalog in the locks section, there is for sale sets of castings to make a Bedford style lock with the plate marked "W.G. Sutter Ruffsdale, PA. Lots of engraving cast in. 

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2010, 09:11:10 AM »
thanx b shipman... i was aware of those... from what i've been told they were pattented and many were made that way there is a picture of one done in that way on this site somewhere... i don't really have the time to find it right now... but if you know how i can get a copy of that article in the catalog it would be appreciated... thanx much for the info... ~Amanda

Offline JTR

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2010, 06:37:47 PM »
Here's something similar on ebay. No name, but same engraving design. It's missing the frizzen and spring.
John

item # 290443086613
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 06:59:34 PM by JTR »
John Robbins

jwh1947

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2010, 05:47:22 AM »
Amanda.  Welcome to the site.  First, where is Ruffs Dale?  I'm in Harrisburg.  Also, roughly how many of these Sutter locks have you seen?  Do they all have that distinct rear end that we associate with Bedford region?  Did he ever sign his barrels?  Thanks, Wayne

Ben Gorey

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2010, 03:11:57 AM »
Wayne:   I have a rifle with a late English style Sutter flintlock.   I remember reading in an early Muzzle Blasts that Sutter's daughter did engraving for him.    Ben

razzgirl027

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2010, 09:35:37 AM »
Ruffs Dale is about 45 minutes southeast of pittsburgh below greensburg. I have seen quite a few considering I live within about 5 minutes of most of his kids.  All the locks that I have seen made by him were shaped that way.  And, as far as i know he didn't sign his barrels but they are numbered.  It is possible that one of his daughters engraved with him... do you happen to know if they mentioned which daughter?? There are a few of them... lol

Ben Gorey

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Re: photo of Sutter lock
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2010, 02:44:14 AM »
The following is from the article in MUZZLE BLASTS, November 1958, pg 9.   Charlotte Sutter 18yrs. old, assembles and engraves flint locks for her father. She provided a finished one to Red Farris of Muzzle Blasts, NMLRA. She signed her name "in the space normally used for that purpose" on the lock plate. She is "aided and abetted by two younger brothers" (No names given). The lock was sold to an unnamed man at the 1958 National Matches.                       

Sutter attended the NMLRA Matches with Thomas W. Kuhn of Ruffsdale, PA

If this leads to additional info, let us know.

Ben