Author Topic: Looking for a new Jaeger  (Read 27675 times)

Dean2

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Looking for a new Jaeger
« on: October 08, 2014, 08:43:42 PM »
With the help of the great advice from this forum I have managed to pick up a beautiful left hand 32 Caliber half stock left hand flint by a local custom builder and a Hawken Full Stock left hand flint made by Taylor Sapergia. It looks great and shoots even better, no matter whether it has the 54 or 62 Barrel in place. I have previously posted pictures of this rifle in this forum.

I am so pleased with the way these custom built guns perform that I am looking at getting a Short Barreled Jaeger in left hand flintlock. Caliber will likely be 62 since this seems to be correct for this type of rifle. Looking for a short handy rifle for hunting in real tight quarters. My Percussion Deerslayer does this well but it sure doesn't feel and look as good as the customs I have.

I know the Jaegers come in everything from plain to exceptionally fancy. I am looking for one built with great parts, 4140 Chrome Moly Barrel, top quality lock, nicely figured stock etc. but not necessarily with a lot of carving or engraving on it.

Who would you recommend for a great built, relatively plain, Jaeger in the range of $3,000 or less. Thanks for your help, the previous advise was of great use.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 09:50:09 PM »
You get me the parts and I can build your gun, probably 1/2 years out and stay in your budget..
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

jamesthomas

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 01:01:33 AM »
 Why a 4140 moly chrome barrel?  ???

Offline sz

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 01:20:19 AM »
PM Me if you'd like.




Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 01:50:44 AM »
Why NOT a 4140 barrel?Or 4150.

Bob Roller

Dean2

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 05:49:26 PM »
James E, I am looking for a 4140 or like Barrel rather than the typical poor steel ML barrel on many rifles.

Bob Roller. I understand your first post relates to James E's question but as to your second post I really have no idea what that relates to in my question and trust it is just a post into the wrong thread.  (Moderator's Note: Bob's second post has been split off and relocated to Over the Back Fence.)

Thanks for the many PMs offering to build. To those I will also reply by PM. Thanks to Mike and SZ for your kind offers, I will definitely keep them in mind as I go through the selection process.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 05:24:12 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 06:09:27 PM »
Where will you find a left handed Jaeger lock?
Dave Kanger

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Dean2

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 07:32:08 PM »
That is one of the challenges, it will required a builder with good skills to reshape probably a Chambers assembled builders lock so the lock plate has the Germanic style. I don't think a left hand Siler or L&R lock plate could be reshaped enough to look proper. That is one of the reasons I am looking for recommendations on builders. A good looking LH Jaeger is a bit tougher build than many others in left hand.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 12:08:09 AM »
OOOPPS! Now you waited to long and I've lost interest. I with draw my offer.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline AMartin

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 01:16:15 PM »
I agree Mike ...

Dean#2 is wishing too much ... I was turned off by the chrome moly thing .... Not that I don't use CM but it'll be in a 300H&H or something like that !!


« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 01:17:53 PM by AMartin »

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 02:23:31 PM »
I agree Mike ...

Dean#2 is wishing too much ... I was turned off by the chrome moly thing .... Not that I don't use CM but it'll be in a 300H&H or something like that !!



Yep, a build like that could turn into a CF. Barrel is a one off, lock is another one off.....
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

jamesthomas

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 04:24:11 PM »
James E, I am looking for a 4140 or like Barrel rather than the typical poor steel ML barrel on many rifles.

Bob Roller. I understand your first post relates to James E's question but as to your second post I really have no idea what that relates to in my question and trust it is just a post into the wrong thread.

Thanks for the many PMs offering to build. To those I will also reply by PM. Thanks to Mike and SZ for your kind offers, I will definitely keep them in mind as I go through the selection process.

 In my opinion 12L14, 1137, Heck even wrought iron (1016?) are as good of steels for a muzzleloader as you can find.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 05:33:32 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Dean2

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 04:55:43 PM »
OOOPPS! Now you waited to long and I've lost interest. I with draw my offer.

One day from offer to withdrawal - too long you say on a project with at least a 6 month build window. Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 04:58:47 PM by Dean2 »

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2014, 05:06:07 PM »
Dean.....just curious, what do you feel is inferior steel for a muzzleloading barrel?......
Don

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 05:38:14 PM »
This thread has been edited by a moderator.

Gentlemen,

Let's please remain civil and on the subject of this topic.  Dean2 has asked for recommendations for a jaeger builder.  He has not asked for opinions on barrel steel.  There have been many previous debates on that subject and they can be looked up, if you're interested.  Thanks.

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Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2014, 08:27:46 PM »
1137M,the "M"standing for modified for a specific use I believe is what Green Mountain uses or did use for muzzle loader barrels.I inquired about the designation and it seems that if a big enough order is given the mill will modify the material for a specific purpose like truck axles or whatever.
The !2L14 is screw material but used for muzzle loader barrels.

Bob Roller

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2014, 09:56:07 PM »
OOOPPS! Now you waited to long and I've lost interest. I with draw my offer.

One day from offer to withdrawal - too long you say on a project with at least a 6 month build window. Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know.
I'm only going to build for 5 more years, don't have time to dither around anymore. Best way to get a gun built is find "THE" builder you like and have him build it with out any constraints. I actually made a mistype, I'm 1 1/2 years out, not 1/2.
No hard feelings on my end.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Dean2

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2014, 10:36:44 PM »
Ky-Flinter is correct. I did not mean this to become a debate on barrel steel, quality etc. Rice, Green Mountain and Colerain all make very good quality barrels, with material of adequate quality.

Mike - I understnad your position, 1 1/2 years out seems normal for quality builders. Finding "THE" builder to then start working with is exactly what I was trying to do with this thread. As to no constraints, I am fine with that but I do want a Jaeger that looks and feels like a Jaeger, right down to the proper locks, thimbles, patch boxes, fittings and architecture, despite it being left handed. That is why I was looking for recommendations on people who specialize in building the Jaeger style of rifle. I am more than happy to leave it in the builders hands if the builder knows exactly what they are doing. No hard feelings on my part either.

Given what I have learned in my research are the challenges of building a left hand Jaeger, the lack of what I can find for Jaeger kits in left hand etc, my primary interest was in getting recommendations from the members with respect to who they thought could do a good job on this fairly challenging commission. Thanks for any help, it is appreciated.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2014, 12:38:45 AM »
OK, I understand what you're doing. The lefty lock is going to be your hang up. That and the barrel being made of "unobtainium" Is going to drive your price up to where you may pass your $3000 limit. If historical accuracy is any concern you're going to be limited to maybe   1/2  dozen  builders  or less that "really" know anything about this style of gun. Your run of the mill gun builders will slap a short barrel in a piece of fancy curly maple and cover the gun with some inappropriate carving and engraving and throw in a little bad archetecture  to top it off and call it good.
 I seriously doubt if you can get any of the guys competent of doing a gun like this for $3K.
Just my opinion of course. ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

jamesthomas

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2014, 01:56:36 AM »
Ky-Flinter is correct. I did not mean this to become a debate on barrel steel, quality etc. Rice, Green Mountain and Colerain all make very good quality barrels, with material of adequate quality.

 If these companies make "very good quality barrels" why don't you use one of these companies barrels?. It would probably bring the cost of your rifle down, and in a time line where your not climbing the walls. Plus I betcha nobody will be able to tell that you used 12L14 instead of Moly Chrome 4140.

Dean2

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2014, 02:03:27 PM »
Quote

 If these companies make "very good quality barrels" why don't you use one of these companies barrels?. It would probably bring the cost of your rifle down, and in a time line where your not climbing the walls. Plus I betcha nobody will be able to tell that you used 12L14 instead of Moly Chrome 4140.

In the end that is probably what I will end up doing unless I can find a relatively easy source to make me one. I have inquiries in to a couple of the barrel makers to see if they can do a 26" 54-62 caliber, 1:48 twist barrel for me. If that doesn't pan out I will just go with a stock Colerain or Rice.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 04:15:05 PM by Dennis Glazener »

Offline rtadams

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2014, 05:05:09 PM »
10-11-14

Dean2,

The following is a Jaeger Rifle Barrel available NOW:

One (1) --- 62 cal x 31” long Jaeger Rifle Barrel --- $325.00 plus shipping, insurance and container cost.
Nominal Breech dia. --- 1.230”, Transition dia. --- .935”, Muzzle dia. --- 1.160”
62 caliber, 31” long, Rifling --- 1 turn in 66” equal width lands and groves with right hand twist (Douglas bored and flat bottom rifled grooves), Breech plug as designed for John Bivins installed. Muzzle not crowned so customer can finish with crown of choice or fancy filing as desired. Barrel Matl -- 1117L with Breech Plug Matl --- 8620L.
The barrel is the original designed Jaeger Rifle Barrel profile for John Bivins and has been in my inventory since 1985, treated with Boeshield T-9 corrosion protection inside & out. There is no rust, period.
The barrel is marked MHRW "Mint Hill Rifle Works".

Note: If you would like to know more about the history of the Jaeger Rifle Barrel project designed for John Bivins please advise.

Best Regards,

Robert

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2014, 05:10:36 PM »
I know that at least 3 of the barrel makers have made barrels from 4140.  My Alex Henry barrels were made by Rice under special contract to Rod England.

I also believe that you could contact Mike Rock in Wisconsin and obtain a length of gun certified 4140 to supply to one of the barrel makers to profile your barrel, as Mike doesn't do those types of barrels anymore.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2014, 05:42:59 PM »
Dean2 Talked with a barrel maker (former) and he said that Ed Rayl and Bobby.Hoyt could do the 4140 barrel for you that he drilled and reamed a 4140 blanke and Ed Rayl rifled it for him to make a fast twist barrel. Ed already works with a tougher steel than 12L14. He also advised that the bore finish in all likely hood would be a little rougher than 12L14 and probably need lapping before optimum accuracy could be obtained. You might call or email Ed or Bobby for abiliy/desire /cost and delivery time if you are interested. Tim

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Looking for a new Jaeger
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2014, 06:00:13 PM »
Quote
He also advised that the bore finish in all likely hood would be a little rougher than 12L14 and probably need lapping before optimum accuracy could be obtained.

I visited with and observed a barrel maker who did barrels for Olympic shooters.  He drilled and reamed the blanks and then took them off the machine.  He then lapped the bore, put it on the rifling machine, and single point cut the rifling.  I asked why and he said only the lands were important, not the grooves.  Then there was a specific procedure for fire lapping the end result before the barrel is ever used at the range.  This procedure used to be on Badger Barrels website when Ernie still owned it.  Don't know if it's still there or not.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson