Percussion fouling issue

[Mark Elliott]

I just finished my first percussion longrifle and it is experiencing fouling problems.    After about 6-7 shots (75 grains FF Goex),  the drum is getting clogged with fouling such that the rifle won't fire.    I have to either blow out the charge with CO2 or open the clean out and put a few grains of powder in to get ignition.

The drum is installed just forward of the breech plug face and is filed about level with the bore.   I did leave the tiniest lip because I didn't want to file into the bore.    A patched jag would pass the drum without tearing the patch.    Also,  I was wiping between shots with a damp patch as is my normal practice.    I never had a problem like this shooting flint.    Usually,  my flint guns would shoot 20-30 rounds without a misfire where I would have to clean the pan, touchhole, and flint.   

Having shot lots of percussion rifled muskets and carbines with patent breeches,  I never expected this problem.   

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this problem?   The only thing I can think of is to pull the breech and use a spherical burr to remove any remaining lip from the drum into the bore and slightly cone the inside of the drum.   

Thanks,

Mark

[little joe]

Are you shooting 2f or 3f in the flinters?

[smylee grouch]

Could your jagg be just a tad too big thus pushing fouling down and pluging the drum hole?

[Mark Elliott]

I shoot mostly 3F in my flinters.     The jag and patch combination are tight, but not extremely tight.   

[Mark Elliott]

I should note that my loads are very tight.   They have to be started with a ball starter and I have to use a good bit of my weight.  My standard load is 1.5X caliber, .020" patch, and ball 005" under the bore.   This works best in most guns.    The barrel on this gun is the lightest I have ever used.  It is a 50 cal Rice Southern Classic.   It seems to prefer a lighter and looser load. 

[galudwig]

When I first started shooting my .40 Vincent, I had the same sort of problem; misfires after about 15-20 shots.  I was using a standard .40 cal cleaning jag and patch that was a fairly tight fit.  One of the veterans at my club suggested using a standard .36 cal. cleaning jag with a slightly damp patch.  Since doing that, I can shoot at least 40-50 shots without a misfire.  I wipe between shots with a damp patch followed by a dry one.  I don't try to remove all the fouling, just get it consistent between shots.  I do notice that if I get the patches too wet, I will get some buildup at the bottom.  Sometimes I will get a hangfire when that happens.  I just pull the clean-out screw, pick the drum & breech and go back to shooting.  The smaller jag trick works well enough that I started using a standard .45 cal. jag in my .50 cal. flinters as well. 

galudwig

[Gaeckle]

What is your lube? Hopes makes a product called Hoppes 9 Plus it is a lubricant and a cleaner....it can be used for a patch lube and it works real well. You may even find (as I did) the need to wipe between shots lessens. My small bore guns are finicky creatures and on a recomendation of a good buddie, I started using this. I use this in my little 40 and under caliber rifles (flint and percussion) and I can't recall this issue occuring with my percussion guns.

This stuff is a liquid lubricant and I am liberal in my use on the patch, it's pretty wet when I load....basically, I am wiping the crud with the lubed patch as it is wrapped around the ball, and I don't wipe between shots with this, but I will wipe every ten shots or there abouts.

[Osprey]

I file the bottom of the nipple half round, so that it lines up with the channel in the drum.  Don't know if it'll help your issue, but I can't recall a misfire or failure in my .40 percussion after doing that.  It's the only percussion gun I shoot, spit patch wipe between shots, and even on some really wet days I've watched guys I shoot with have problems and mine keeps going off.  So many variables, however, that it's only a guess...

[Majorjoel]

" Also,  I was wiping between shots with a damp patch as is my normal practice."               Mark, it sounds like you are pushing the barrel's fouling down into your breech and drum areas when you swab with a damp patch. I would for-go this and keep shooting without swabbing between shots.   I will bet that you should find no more misfires and can get at least 20-30 shots without issues and perhaps even many more.  It IS A Percussion Thing!

[okieboy]

 I have had the same problem and it turned out to be that the drum was slightly interfering with the patched cleaning jag. With each wipe part of the powder residue ahead of the patch was being pushed onto the top of the breechplug, but not picked up by the end of the jag. After removing the plug and removing an additional .015" off of the end with a round file, the problem went away.
 I would suppose that the same problem could be caused in a flintlock by a vent liner being installed so that it protruded into the bore, but vent liner threads are pretty short, so you would probably have make an effort to cause this problem.

[smallpatch]

Mark,

I don't build many cap guns either, but I would suggest pulling the plug, and cleaning up that barrel/drum juncture.  Nice and smooth transition like you would a flinter.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I built a percussion gun with a drum a long time back and the drum was drilled & tapped for a 8-32 clean out screw and a 0.136" dia hole to the charge. I would only get a few shots off before it would not fire. The carbon build up was clogging the fire channel and I had to remove the clean out screw to clear the channel as you did also. I removed the drum and bored out the fire channel to 0.177" dia up to the nipple hole but stopped short of the 8-32 clean out screw. This gave me a 0.177" dia fire channel instead of a 0.136" dia fire channel. This eliminated my clogging issue and the gun fires every time all the time. I then "dressed up" (coned) the end of the drum that screwed into the barrel and reinstalled it. I also swab after each shot which is a rule at my club.

[Scota4570]

I removed the drum and bored out the fire channel to 0.177" dia up to the nipple hole but stopped short of the 8-32 clean out screw. This gave me a 0.177" dia fire channel instead of a 0.136" dia fire channel.

Agreed!  I personally avoid #11 caps when I can.  I use musket caps when ever possible.  Musket cap nipples are common with 1/4 x 28 threads.  I make all my cap guns for that thread.  I never have ignition problems with the musket caps regardless of flash channel design flaws or oil in the breech.    Musket caps are easier to handle.  #11s tend to be fumbly for me. 

[Mark Elliott]

Thanks for the all the responses, guys.

[docone]

I have found, with a capper, a small piece of steel from tapping can cause real hangfires.
I got a CVA rifle with a stuck ball, and full load. I got the ball out and fired out the Pyrodex. On removing the nipple, I found fouling. I cleaned and cleaned. The rifle had that load for over 20yrs and the drum and chamber was fouled. On cleaning that, I found the drum and nipple was clogged. The threads on entry to the barrel had a burr. That had fur from cleaning patches, and powder residue that was pushed against it. It resulted in a flake that would go into the opening, or gave a fairly clear path to the powder.
On that rifle, I removed the cleanout screw, and replaced it with an allen head metric machine screw. I had ground the threads to be smooth with no obstruction, the nipple threads, I chased with a tap, I then cleaned out the channel from the nipple to the barrel.
After that, no hangfires to this day. I have since done a restocking with help from a member and my wife loves it. It had a two piece stock, now an one piece stock, with brass furniture. The barrel has at least 20yr old browning on it.
That piece of fowling had all along, been the obstruction. Just a burr on the threads and it made flake in the channel.
Before the modifications, it would fire slowly. A big difference in ignition after, using Pyrodex. I use #11 nipples.
I also made the cleanout screw to stop just behind the nipple opening. I dressed the edges so they were polished smooth. No ridges. The cap flame has no where to go but into the charge with no delay. No place for the ash to be pushed into by the pressure of combustion.

[Hefner]

I make sure to snap a cap or sometimes two after cleaning the barrel during a match.  No problems if I do that.  I point the muzzle down toward the grass or leaves on the ground and I sometimes see fouling come out as well as the grass move, then I know the nipple channel is clear.

[hammer]

My regime for my .53 percussion. 
1). First open up the tiny hole in the base of the No. 11 nipple.  As bought you can't even get a pin through them.  Just a little.  It ensures the full flash hits the charge for a fast, efficient and reliable ignition.  Important in larger bore rifles with a correspondingly coarser grain powder.
2).  Use Neatsfoot Oil for the patch lube.  Soak and store the patches in a small tin and use them wet but not actually dripping.  The compression between ball and bore will squeeze out the excess and save the powder from being affected (target shooting only).    No burnt patches and a clean bore.
3).   When cleaning the rifle first remove the nipple.  When the bore is clean bend a pipe cleaner and run into the nipple channel through to the bore.  I cut the pipe cleaners into short sections and store in my cleaning box.  This removes any remaining scale.  Then flush the bore and chamber.
4).   Thoroughly clean the nipple.  A pipe cleaner section will fit the larger hole.  Generously oil the nipple chamber and nipple and refit.
5).  Snap off a couple of caps before firing and, importantly, then wipe the bore with a dampened cleaning patch to remove the oil from the bore and the fouling from the two caps.  You are then OK to start pouring powder.

[Steve-In]

Do what Mr Berkuta suggested.  Also load at half cock to allow some powder to get under the nipple by allowing trapped air to escape.  If that and the smaller jag don't solve the problem vent the drum.  If your drum has a clean out screw you can always vent it to see if you want to vent the drum.  I make my vents about the same size as the hole in the nipple.

[Luke MacGillie]

I also swab after each shot which is a rule at my club.

I thought the anti-pistol mafia was bad, but you belong to a club that mandates wiping after each shot? 

Sure its a good practice, but sometimes I just want to find out just how long a rifle would have been good to go in battle......