Author Topic: Short Starter button/stud?  (Read 11498 times)

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Short Starter button/stud?
« on: October 11, 2014, 04:42:35 AM »
Been trying to find where to get the brass stud/button for the really short starter of a short starter.  Perhaps I am searching the usual suspects with the wrong term?

TIA

Luke

Offline Virginiarifleman

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2014, 06:37:24 AM »
A ramrod Tip and jag for the Caliber you are using is what you need. Track of the Wolf, Cains outdoor.com, log cabin shop. Etc. as for the short little nub you will have to make from a wood dowell or brass rod stock,
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 06:41:07 AM by Virginiarifleman »

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2014, 07:40:55 AM »
Hi Luke,

The Gun Works lists Short Starter Buttons for various calibers, made by Treso..... http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?Cat2Name=Short%20Starter%20Parts&SubCat2ID=166&do=list&Cat1Name=Loading%20Tools

I'm sure other places sell them too.

-Ron

Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 03:03:03 PM »
Hi Luke,

The Gun Works lists Short Starter Buttons for various calibers, made by Treso..... http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?Cat2Name=Short%20Starter%20Parts&SubCat2ID=166&do=list&Cat1Name=Loading%20Tools

I'm sure other places sell them too.

-Ron




Thanks Ron,  Exactly what I needed
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 06:31:56 PM by Luke MacGillie »

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2014, 02:29:29 AM »
Just cut a piece off a brass rod of whatever diameter you need. Many are made fom wood dowels.
Mark
Mark

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2014, 04:13:50 PM »
I used a cartridge case (yeah i know) inverted deprimed and shaped.  Also used one to protect the end grain on the hickory stick part.  I like calling them the pre-starter and full-starter for differentiational purposes.  Or pre-starter and ball starter.

Getting the perfect length with the convex surface can be a trick.

Wondering if antler is a good option for the stud? 


Gotta start using some of these "spoils" of hunting that have accumulated over the years.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Virginiarifleman

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2014, 05:47:18 PM »
I make mine from Antler and use hickory for the stud. the less metal in contact with the bore is better.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2014, 10:09:39 PM »
Same as Wade and Taylor. We use ctg. brass. A .50 or .54, even .58 can use any standard case, like .22-250, .260 Rem. .270. .308, .30/06= standard case- you get the drift, with a .470" head diameter.  Cut to length - about 1" deprime, cup with a 7/16""drill and set 3/4" into the head of your starter, with epoxy, leaving 1/4" out.
For large bores, I use magnum cases. Empty brass lays unattended on the ground of many gun ranges- or simply ask a local friend for an empty case.
For smaller bores, once fired .223 cases, lay by the thousands lay around on the ground - measuring .378", they do for the .40 and .45 cals.
For even smaller calibres, .22 Hornet brass is only .300" and will do for .32's to .36's.  It should have a small wooden plug inside to help strengthen it's case walls which are weak.
For even smaller calibres - use your imagination or a simple dowel.
I like to chuck them up on the lathe and turn off the rim following the extractor groove angle, then put in a screw-eye to use range pickup for powder measures.  With a .300 WSMag. trimmed off at the bottom of the shoulder(at the body diameter), you have about a 60gr. measure of brass. Hang it on a thong. Other brass makes for larger or smaller measures. .300 Remington Ultra Mag. brass makes a 100gr. measure.  45 to 55gr. measures can be made from sundry other ctg. cases - 7mm, 8mm, .308.
As well, larger capacity powder measures can be made from differing lengths and diameters of the "craft" brass tubing available in some hobby shops. This is the tubing that each successive size fits inside the next larger size, having a .014" or .015" wall thickness. In the pictures, the measures with the wooden plugs, are for 120 and 140gr.

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Maven

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 07:22:56 PM »
"Same as Wade and Taylor. We use ctg. brass. A .50 or .54, even .58 can use any standard case, like .22-250, .260 Rem. .270. .308, .30/06= standard case- you get the drift, with a .470" head diameter.  Cut to length - about 1" deprime, cup with a 7/16""drill and set 3/4" into the head of your starter, with epoxy, leaving 1/4" out."  ... Daryl

I've been using cartridge cases for years to protect ramrod and short starter tips, but Daryl's suggestion (above) is one I never thought of.  I tried it and it works perfectly!  Btw, if you need a larger tip for your short starter, e.g., for use in a 20ga. trade gun, the brass (sometimes brass plated) end of a .410ga. cartridge works very well, especially if you turn the rim down a bit. :)
Paul W. Brasky

Offline Daryl

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 10:12:08 PM »
Glad you tried it Paul.

Too, for the larger calibres, standard magnum ctgs. run .532" on the rim and belt, which makes for perfect seating depth in the head of the short starter, with the short mags like the .270, 7mm and .300 WSM at .550 on the head (as well as with the Remington Ultra Mags.  The BIG Weatherby Magnums like the .378 and .460 run .579 on the rim & .603 on the belt.  The .338 Lapua (usually no brass for this laying around - but???) runs .588" with no belt. These are perfect for the .60cals. and over, of course.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline hanshi

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 12:53:32 AM »
These are a few of the ones I've made from various materials including cartridge cases.


This one has the short button (longer than it looks) carved integral with the handle.  The red ball is a vent pick that stores in the handle.

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Offline longcruise

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 05:03:35 AM »
I have eliminated the short nub altogether.  Just a Bump or two with the palm using the long arm, cut at muzzle and then down the full length of the long arm.
Mike Lee

Offline Daryl

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 08:13:09 PM »
Mike, Taylor and I used to do that too, for decades and with excellent results.  

When my big girl was shooting sub 2" groups at 100meters that is the method I used.  

Then I day, I thoguht about the slightly crooked thump I was giving the ball with my starter knob - what if?  So I experimented with a strip of patching material,  thumped in a ball as normal then pulled it out and checked it visually.

 Lead was oviously pushed up on one side more than the other by the lands, ie: the rifling marks were deeper on one side than the other, with a small ridge of lead above the heavier imprint. I did it again and again to check  this finding and indeed, I found it almost impossible to start a ball perfectly straight, with perfectly even rifling marks left on the ball by thumping it in with the starter's handle and a hand blow.  For hunting large game, the difference in accuracy would be negligible, however, for accuracy shooting - it ALL matters.

That is when I went to the short nub on the starter's handle for straighter line seating, and even then, one must be careful.  I did finally find perfectly imprinted balls when checking the seating alignment with this method, so since I've become accustomed to it, I use it.  

I am sure today, that round ball bench rest shooters, if allowed, would be or are using muzzle fitting, in-line ball seaters for a perfect seat into the lands of the patched round balls, especially if false muzzles weren't allowed. It makes sense to seat the ball as perfectly as one attempts to seat an elongated bullet.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:50:23 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline hanshi

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 09:59:42 PM »
An odd question but how centered would the ball be if seated flat to the muzzle with, just for arguments sake, say a flat knife handle, then pushed down with the starters long arm?
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 06:40:49 PM »
One of the things that endears muzzle loading shooting to me, is the opportunity to and necessity of experimenting with every variable that comes to mind.  Many enjoyable hours have been spent at the range trying this and that, recording the results, and continuing on.  Having someone give their opinion regarding any question about shooting is simply another reason to experiment yourself...not a reason to stop looking.  As they say....your mileage may vary!
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 08:44:37 PM »
An odd question but how centered would the ball be if seated flat to the muzzle with, just for arguments sake, say a flat knife handle, then pushed down with the starters long arm?

Probably straight - but - any slant on the handle before smacking it, or smacking it on an angle, will start the ball crookedly, due to there being more pressure on one side than the other.

It all depends on what results you want or demand and to what extent you are willing to work to achieve those results.

I am reminded of the young fellow with the .50 CVA rifle at the rod and gun club in Burnaby BC, who shot once fired .30/30 cased filled with sand. He was absolutely delighted if and when they hit the paper at 25 yards. He said to me - "Most people just throw these things away but they make really good bullets in my musket loader. I file the rims off then fill them with sand, I use beeswax to keep the sand inside them and they're really accurate. I can hit the target almost every time."   

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 02:06:02 AM »
My rod tip for my .54 wiping stick is a deprived 38-55 case.  They work perfectly. It serves to remind me of one of the most accurate rifles I ever owned…which I sold of course  :'(

Offline Maven

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2014, 08:03:28 PM »
"I am reminded of the young fellow with the .50 CVA rifle at the rod and gun club in Burnaby BC, who shot once fired .30/30 cased filled with sand. He was absolutely delighted if and when they hit the paper at 25 yards. He said to me - 'Most people just throw these things away but they make really good bullets in my musket loader. I file the rims off then fill them with sand, I use beeswax to keep the sand inside them and they're really accurate. I can hit the target almost every time.'" ...Daryl

That's a rather unique projectile and a "creative" ??? use of brass.  Hadn't he heard of patched round balls, or even conicals for that rifle?  What a waste of a potential starter stud or even muzzle protector. ;)
Paul W. Brasky

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2014, 11:53:19 PM »


This is what I ended up making.  Worked just fine......


Offline Daryl

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2014, 09:32:07 PM »
"I am reminded of the young fellow with the .50 CVA rifle at the rod and gun club in Burnaby BC, who shot once fired .30/30 cased filled with sand. He was absolutely delighted if and when they hit the paper at 25 yards. He said to me - 'Most people just throw these things away but they make really good bullets in my musket loader. I file the rims off then fill them with sand, I use beeswax to keep the sand inside them and they're really accurate. I can hit the target almost every time.'" ...Daryl

That's a rather unique projectile and a "creative" ??? use of brass.  Hadn't he heard of patched round balls, or even conicals for that rifle?  What a waste of a potential starter stud or even muzzle protector. ;)

 He discovered his accuracy requirements were met with using collected projectiles that cost him nothing.   This as opposed to those who demand perfection, merely displays to us, some of the extremes in people's personal requirements.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Daryl

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 07:52:58 PM »
Looks good Luke!
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mick C

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2014, 09:28:29 PM »
Daryl, that is quite a collection!!  Hat's off!...Mick C
My profile picture is my beloved K9 best friend and soulmate, Buster Brown, who passed away in 2018.  I miss you buddy!

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Short Starter button/stud?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2014, 06:17:37 AM »
Been trying to find where to get the brass stud/button for the really short starter of a short starter.  Perhaps I am searching the usual suspects with the wrong term?

TIA

Luke

Make it out of an antler tip. Its easier on the crown.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine