Vent liner question: is this normal?

[C. Cash]

I acquired a flint long rifle recently for my boy which has a screw in vent liner.  It goes in fairly easy, and does not tighten.  If I keep turning clockwise I believe it would fall into the interior of the barrel.  Except on TC's which do tighten, I've never dealt with these liners on other guns.  My other long rifle has a fixed liner.  Is this normal?  Seems like a liner ought to snug up to the barrel to make a stronger seal.   The gun is like new.

[EC121]

If it doesn't snug up in the threads, the vent liner isn't right.  It should bottom out against the threads or the countersunk shoulder of the barrel flat.  If it is a straight liner, the threads should only be cut far enough to get the liner to the side of the barrel.  If the barrel wall isn't thick enough the threads could have been cut too deep.  You may have to go up a thread size and install another liner.  What is the caliber and barrel size?

[C. Cash]

Thank you for the reply!  It is an Ed Rayle barrel in 54 caliber.  Hoping it will be an easy fix, but bummed we may miss flintlock deer with it this year as I can't trust it at this point.  We do have a Renegade backup at least.

[EC121]

What is the size of the barrel and the diameter of the liner?  A 1in. barrel should leave close to .25in. wall thickness in a .54cal.  Since the hole is already drilled, it is only about a 1hr. fix.  Is it a straight liner or does it have a countersunk head?  You could buy another liner of the same thread, but countersunk shoulder type and change it out.  No reason to miss deer season. 

[Ky-Flinter]

C. Cash,

I was going to post basically what EC121 said, but he beat me to it.  It does sound like a straight sided liner to me.  The only thing I would add is, if you get a new, shouldered liner, before you install it, trim the bore side of the liner, as needed so that it doesn't protrude into the bore.

And good luck to you and your son this deer season.

-Ron

[C. Cash]

Thank you guys!  It is. 15/16 across the flats barrel, 54 cal Ed Rayle.  I'll take a measurement on the liner this Am and get back.

[Virginiarifleman]

i would get a Chambers whitelightning vent liner and drill & tap and install it. very simple install.

[C. Cash]

The threads measures .246-7 in diameter, and the barrel is tapped all the way through.  Thank you for the white lightning suggestion VA rifleman....will check that out.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Loc-tite it in (use the permanent stuff) it will not go anywhere. Later on after your hunting season you can install a flanged  liner or leave it as is - your choice.

[smylee grouch]

Chamber's liners have 32 threads per inch so just instaling one wont work unless yours is also 32 tpi. You might have to go up in size to a 5/16 dia. liner.

[EC121]

The permanent thread locker is a good idea.  We used a lot of that at the papermill I worked at.  It would probably be there forever. 

[C. Cash]

 I had a forum member graciously offer to help and I might be able to get it to him.  Might try the loc tite it if I can't get there.  Very much appreciate the knowledge and kindness of this forum.

[HAWKEN]

I agree with the loc-tite fix.  Go with the green, if you can find it, if not, use the red.  The red can be found most everywhere, even Walmart.  Keep yer powder dry......Robin

[Dphariss]

I agree with the loc-tite fix.  Go with the green, if you can find it, if not, use the red.  The red can be found most everywhere, even Walmart.  Keep yer powder dry......Robin

LOCTITE! ?
You need someone who understands how vent liners are supposed to be installed. This is a firearm not a Lego set.
This is a pressure bearing part it, needs to be properly installed so it does not BLOW OUT and maybe hit someone in the head.

Dan

[JTR]

So after all the talk on this forum of being absolutely positive that you have the breech plug properly fitted and tight, somehow now, it's okay to lock-tite a loose liner?

Both breech plug and liner have the same pressure/forces exerted against them when you fire the gun, so why is it okay to lock-tite the liner, but not the breech plug?

Just curious,

John

[C. Cash]

To be fair, I don't know if I'd call it loose (threads are not worn and the gun is practically new).  But there is no real resistance at any point which makes me uneasy, personally.   So, will try and get this addressed with a gunsmith before I go any farther.

[Virginiarifleman]

For safety sake i would NOT loctite a vent liner.

[Dphariss]

To be fair, I don't know if I'd call it loose (threads are not worn and the gun is practically new).  But there is no real resistance at any point which makes me uneasy, personally.   So, will try and get this addressed with a gunsmith before I go any farther.

What is the thread fit like? If the liner is cut to the lower end of the standard and the tap to the upper end there can be strength issues. This is something the installer is supposed to know. It must be looked at by someone that understands how its supposed to be.  If fitted right there is no problem with a vent liner. Properly installed there is not a lot of pressure on the threads. But if NOT properly done, and few are, they can blow out OR gas cut around the threads. Loc-tite might fix gas cutting but its not going to compensate for sloppy thread fits.  Its impossible to buy a vent liner, a drill and a tap. Tap a hole in the barrel and screw a vent liner in it and think its right.
Once its fixed the barrel needs to be proved to assure the installation is sound.  
There is no reason to have a removable vent liner.

Dan

[P.W.Berkuta]

I agree with the loc-tite fix.  Go with the green, if you can find it, if not, use the red.  The red can be found most everywhere, even Walmart.  Keep yer powder dry......Robin

LOCTITE! ?
You need someone who understands how vent liners are supposed to be installed. This is a firearm not a Lego set.
This is a pressure bearing part it, needs to be properly installed so it does not BLOW OUT and maybe hit someone in the head.

Dan

Yes - Loctite - I am a mechanichal engineer and have been working in the aerospace industry for 45 years so I do know what I am talking about not just "dreaming up ideas". For those of you that like to play "Chicken Little" and predict doom & gloom from tea leaves not fact do as you please but do your research before "stampeding the heard" As said by C. Cash - "To be fair, I don't know if I'd call it loose (threads are not worn and the gun is practically new) and yes thread fit IS most important for the Loctite to work at it's best as the manufacture intended it to. So sit back and smoke your pipes and spout the wisdom of the dark ages - enjoy your "Happy Place" -  do as you wish, no skin off my nose:).

[HAWKEN]

[


Dan
[/quote]
Yes - Loctite - I am a mechanichal engineer and have been working in the aerospace industry for 45 years so I do know what I am talking about not just "dreaming up ideas". For those of you that like to play "Chicken Little" and predict doom & gloom from tea leaves not fact do as you please but do your research before "stampeding the heard" As said by C. Cash - "To be fair, I don't know if I'd call it loose (threads are not worn and the gun is practically new) and yes thread fit IS most important for the Loctite to work at it's best as the manufacture intended it to. So sit back and smoke your pipes and spout the wisdom of the dark ages - enjoy your "Happy Place" -  do as you wish, no skin off my nose:).

Thank you Mr. Berkuta.  I hate being vilified, especially by chicken little types, with little or no knowledge or practical experience of which they expouse dire warnings.  The OP did not say the threads were loose, only that they were deeper than he was comfortable with. 
[/quote]

[Daryl]

C.Cash- I would have someone who knew how, to properly install a White Lightning liner and be done with this.

[JTR]

Yes - Loctite - I am a mechanichal engineer and have been working in the aerospace industry for 45 years so I do know what I am talking about not just "dreaming up ideas". , no skin off my nose:).

Seems to me that someone said something similar about an o-ring, then a missing chunk of tile,,, Oops,,,,  Seems Amazing that a person with your background would condone such a repair without seeing some pictures, measurements, something, of the of the parts in question..... But then like you said, no skin off your nose.....

John

[Dphariss]

I agree with the loc-tite fix.  Go with the green, if you can find it, if not, use the red.  The red can be found most everywhere, even Walmart.  Keep yer powder dry......Robin

LOCTITE! ?
You need someone who understands how vent liners are supposed to be installed. This is a firearm not a Lego set.
This is a pressure bearing part it, needs to be properly installed so it does not BLOW OUT and maybe hit someone in the head.

Dan

Yes - Loctite - I am a mechanichal engineer and have been working in the aerospace industry for 45 years so I do know what I am talking about not just "dreaming up ideas". For those of you that like to play "Chicken Little" and predict doom & gloom from tea leaves not fact do as you please but do your research before "stampeding the heard" As said by C. Cash - "To be fair, I don't know if I'd call it loose (threads are not worn and the gun is practically new) and yes thread fit IS most important for the Loctite to work at it's best as the manufacture intended it to. So sit back and smoke your pipes and spout the wisdom of the dark ages - enjoy your "Happy Place" -  do as you wish, no skin off my nose:).

I was not especially concerned over the GLUE but rather the FIT of the parts and trying to overcome sloppy workmanship with glue. The point, mechanical engineer, is that I have no idea what one persons "loose" is. Even glued in its STILL NOT INSTALLED PROPERLY or there would have not been a post to discuss. Glue will not fix that. Glue will also make it harder to remove when and if necessary. Then there are the exposed threads if I understand the OPs comments correctly. They make a dandy fouling/oil/solvent/whatever trap that can cause various problems. So glue is not the answer. Unless one prefers slop job gunsmaking.
I have bought taps and liners as a "set" that made such a loose fit I had to make a liner for the tapped hole. So I have trust issues when people talk about cobbled together guns. Glue or no glue it ain't right.
You sound like a major stock holder in a glue factory. I have used loctite in some applications that would surprise some here and probably you. But in this case someone who has some understanding needs to look at the thing so someone's kid does not get a vent liner in the side of their head some day. Sloppy breeching is an epidemic in modern American "custom" MLing something that never ceases to amaze me. I never order a breeched barrel from anyone even if they offer them. Telling people to glue in a part of unknown fit is not a good idea in my opinion. So like I said it needs to be looked at by someone who has some modicum of understanding and FIXED by pitching the old liner in the trash and installing one properly. Simple concept no glue required.

Dan

[C. Cash]

Well I appreciate all replies here.  We all come at things from a slightly different angle and it's all of good use in coming up with a solution.  I have had 2 gunsmiths on the board very kindly offer to help and one is fairly close by and a friend of mine.  So, will hopefully get a solid liner in and get that boy of mine blasting away.  Thank you all.

[Virginiarifleman]

Well Said Dan................