Author Topic: Mink Oil  (Read 17098 times)

Offline moleeyes36

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Mink Oil
« on: November 02, 2014, 06:36:53 PM »
Since I typically leave a charge in a barrel when hunting for sometimes several days when the deer or hog hunting is not good, I ordered a can of Mink Oil from Track of the Wolf and tried it.  It shot to the same point of impact as when I use Mr. Flintlock's Lube for target work and allowed me to shoot all morning at the range with no cleaning between shots, it left behind a residue in the bore that appeared to be a mixture of grease and burned powder.  While it wasn't enough to hinder loading without cleaning between shots, the stuff was totally impervious to water when it was time to clean the rifle at the end of the day.  It took a long time and a lot of effort to get all that residue out of the groves and start seeing clean patches. 

I may be spoiled by how easy a bore cleans up when using Mr. Flintlock's Lube, but after using Mink Oil I was very disappointed by how hard the bore was to clean with just water which is what I like to use.  TC's Bore Butter even cleans up easier than what I experienced with Mink Oil.  I guess I'll start experimenting with Mr. Flintlock's Lube as a hunting lube and see if the point of impact changes and how it cleans up after being in a barrel for a few days.  I know others swear by Mink Oil, but my experience with it was a bust.

Mole Eyes
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FrontierMuzzleloading

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2014, 07:03:03 PM »
i think because you were not cleaning between shots, is the reason you had such a mess at the end of the day. I use warm soapy water with TOW and I've never had an issue like that.

LOVE mink oil for hunting situation. I did a 2 week test with it to see if it would dry out and at the end of 2 weeks, the recovered patch was in perfect condition.

I don't lube patches heavily with the stuff as that tends to kill my accuracy.

Offline LRB

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2014, 07:41:53 PM »
  I believe you will have to resort to a soap and water mix in order to dissolve or emulsify the grease/oil. Dawn or Palmolive dish soap should make it much easier.

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2014, 08:40:23 PM »
Well I'm not going to start up an endless discussion on needing to clean between shots and using soap to clean out the bore instead of water.  As demonstrated here on the forum those two subjects generate strong feelings both pro and con.  Many here feel that there should be no need to clean between shots to load or to avoid "gunk" buildup in the bore.  Daryl and others have written some very good threads on that subject and addressed it in detail many times.  After considerable experimenting, I've become a convert to that and am firmly in that camp.  Many also ritually clean between shots which is certainly their prerogative.

There have also been a number of threads about using soaps and other things to clean the bore and what damage that may or not do.  I'm not a chemical engineer, I was an electrical engineer before I retired, so I can't support either side on that one.  But I'd rather error on the side of caution and not use anything in the bore that requires soap and water or a commercial bore cleaning product to remove.  I'm not saying that doing so is bad because I can't prove that it is, I'm just in the camp that prefers not to do so.  It's a personal choice.

Mole Eyes 
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Joe S

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 09:18:36 PM »
Iíve used mink oil for a hunting lube for years, but lately Iíve gone to neetsfoot oil instead.  Mink oil is great, but I have not been able to clean my barrel expect with warm water and soap when I use that stuff.  Neetsfoot oil is much easier to clean up.  Plus, neetsfoot oil patches are a lot easier to load when it gets seriously cold.

FrontierMuzzleloading

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 12:55:59 AM »
its oil/grease with fouling in it. Ever try washing your hands with just plain cold water? What makes you think it will clean out a bore with just plain water?

C. Cash

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 01:55:35 AM »
My standard Ballistol/water mix will cut the mink oil and BP fouling in mine quite well.  I mix it half and half. 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 01:58:54 AM by C. Cash »

Offline PPatch

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 02:12:15 AM »
Well, pretty much a no brainer that plain water won't dissolve a greasy gob, so something else has to help. I'd try warm water (not hot) and Ballistol. And expect to do a little extra work for the benefit Mink oil provides.

dp
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Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 03:57:26 AM »
its oil/grease with fouling in it. Ever try washing your hands with just plain cold water? What makes you think it will clean out a bore with just plain water?

You totally miss the point.  Of course plain water won't cut that crud, but why in heaven's name would you want to put something in your bore that ends up leaving "oil/grease with fouling in it" and causes you to clean the bore between each shot as you say you do?  That's absolutely not necessary.  But don't get your knickers in a knot if that's what you want to do, just do it.
Don Richards
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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2014, 04:05:08 AM »
didnt the old timers use natural animal fat? Fat-oil-grease BUILDS UP!

Use it for hunting, grease lube, keeps for well over 2 weeks.

 I just had a friend PM me earlier today about how his hawken was all over the place at 100 yards. After 10 shots, he decided to clean it and bam! Its hitting where it should. Shoving a patch stuffed with grease is going to load easier, sure, but as you found out, you filled the bore with lube so it could load easier.

Its a muzzle loader, clean it, plain and simple. I've been using dawn and warm soapy water for years in the same rifle with no problems. You can read lots of views on such and such but in the end, it boils down to what works for you and your rifle.

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2014, 05:15:49 AM »


...You can read lots of views on such and such but in the end, it boils down to what works for you and your rifle...


If you go back and read my second post in this thread you'll see that's what I said earlier.  It's a personal choice; whatever floats you boat.
Don Richards
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C. Cash

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 06:15:53 AM »
I believe Mr. flintlocks to be excellent stuff.  If your going to be hunting in the winter and the gun is to stay loaded over a series of days though, I would stick with animal grease like mink or bear grease on these days.  Last winter I used Lehigh Valley Lube for a hunting load.   We had some brutal cold for us.....-10 ish with snow and wind(child's play to our Canadiens I'm sure).  Due to the temps and frozen roads, I couldn't get out to discharge my rifle.  About a week after I pulled the ball and rust had started.  The lighter liquid stuff is definitely not meant to stay in the bore over any length of time.  I will only use grease now for hunting and save the mr. Flintlocks/Lehigh Valley stuff for the range.  The ballistol/water really does cut the fouling with the mink lubed patches.....good stuff.  To clean I flip my rifle over in a cradle with the muzzle slightly down and nothing runs into the barrel channel or lock mortise.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 06:33:03 AM by C. Cash »

Offline mikeo

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 06:39:18 AM »
I had the same experience as C.Cash except mine was with Hoppes Black Powder solvent and patch lube.  I left the rifle loaded for a couple of days then decided to pull the ball and clean the bore.  What I found when I ran a patch was a rough spot where the patched ball had been.  It took awhile but I got it smoothed out with 0000 steel wool.  I would like to use bear grease but have none, I do have a good supply of nice clean Racoon grease the I will use for the rest of the hunting season, and like C. Cash will save the thin stuff for range work.

Mike
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C. Cash

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 07:29:48 AM »
I had the same experience as C.Cash except mine was with Hoppes Black Powder solvent and patch lube.  I left the rifle loaded for a couple of days then decided to pull the ball and clean the bore.  What I found when I ran a patch was a rough spot where the patched ball had been.  It took awhile but I got it smoothed out with 0000 steel wool.  I would like to use bear grease but have none, I do have a good supply of nice clean Racoon grease the I will use for the rest of the hunting season, and like C. Cash will save the thin stuff for range work.

Mike

Yeah I got the rough spot as well, though it seems to have smoothed out from shooting/cleaning.  I'll never do that again!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 07:50:00 AM by C. Cash »

Joe S

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 05:19:35 PM »
If you use a water based lube and leave it in your gun, you will get corrosion.

C. Cash

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2014, 05:28:09 PM »
Centershot, the maker of Mr. Flintlock has said that this is not a water based lube, but neither does he recommend using it as something to load long term into a bore.   He has been upfront and honest about every aspect and I am thankful and wish him great success.  My experience with the rust was with the old Lehigh Valley product, but will still only use grease from here on out for extended hunting.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 07:05:59 PM by C. Cash »

Offline Robby

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2014, 06:25:48 PM »
I am a true believer in the 'no wiping between shots' school, learned here from our friends to the north, Daryl, Taylor and Leatherbelly. I still use Mink oil for hunting though, bear grease when I have it. Moleees, I don't see how it is a bust if your hunting load using mink oil and your target load impact at the same aiming point, its not like your going to fire off fifteen shots while hunting, accuracy and not creating a ring of corrosion in your bore are the most important thing. I would think varying your cleaning procedure for an after hunt clean up would not be a big deal. But then, I use the Dutch Schultz recipe for 'Moose Milk' for all my cleaning and carry a hip flask of it in my bag, cuz sometimes you just never know......
Robby
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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2014, 06:44:26 PM »
your right that there are sooo many different experiences/opinions about this. my dad, 40 yrs ago,  taught me to use bear grease and compared the bore to his cooking skillet and believed in keeping the bore"seasoned". Being a teenager that knew everything, I had to try different ways/products for patches and cleaning. My experience was that using Anything other than a natural based grease or oil made cleaning and keeping it clean a PITA. Also, a couple days after cleaning with hoppes or something, and coating the bore, I would get dirty patches.  from rust. being to lazy to make up bear grease these days i use mink oil.   he also taught me to use warm water to clean with. Dad would say " what the $#*! ails you", the only thing cold water is good for is drinking! Even while hunting and trapping from  a tent or lean too, in 2 feet of snow, thats how i spent my childhood ;D, he would heat water in the fire or hang a tin cup over the coleman lantern to heat it and clean with that. i`ve had many friends who gave up on shooting the black as it was to much of a pain to clean. once I got them using the grease they were amazed at how easy and quick cleaning and shooting with black is. I gave up trying to reinvent the wheel and just use the mink oil for all shooting. cleaning really is or should be pretty easy .My dad used to say "it aint rocket science boy".  On our last hunting trip my dad wasn't all that well,he was 84 yrs old, he had shot 4 or 5 partridges and brought his gun home and stuck it in the corner. he passed soon after. I cleaned his gun after a year of sitting like this and the bore was just fine with no rust.
As they say others mileage may vary.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2014, 07:31:18 PM »
I use doubled flannelette on the jag when cleaning. I clean my ML rifles, all of them with the barrel removed & with the breech shoved into a container of cool tap to cold water. I have never had any buildup of fouling in the bore itself when using mink oil or neetsfoot oil. I use tight combinations, maybe that's the difference - Taylor too & LB, and Neil, Hatchet Jack, & the rest.
The cleaning patch, pumping up and down seems to wipe out all the oil (from the last shot) in the first pass or two - we use the same patch for all the cleaning strokes.
I repeat, I have NEVER had any buildup as Gander suggests.  2 years ago during the winter trail shooting, Taylor used Neetsfoot oil almost every Sunday due to it's being warmer on his old fingers than an alcohol/water based lube. He would fire typically up to about 55 shots int hat one day's shooting. He never had to wipe his bore during the day and he never had to resort to a solvent to cut oil fouling in his bore when he cleaned his rifle barrel after the shooting was finished.  He never had to wipe the bore while shooting.  There was no oil/fouling buildup.  If you do have to cut the grease or oil in the bore, try something like WD40.  Then clean with water as normal for BP. Since Taylor had a rusting episode with Ballistol while on a hunting trip, I've never tried it.

Unburnt powder does not, can not remain in the bore - too much flame work going on, but solid residue from the previous shot (56 or 57% of the charge results in solid waste. Some of that solid waste adheres to the inside of the bore after a shot.  The lube on your patch remaining in the bore softens that fouling.  That 'fouling' is pushed down with the loading of the next lubricated patched ball - or, if not -  the fouling will build up as you are using a (too) loose combination imo. The only way anything builds up inside the bore where the ball occupies and flies, is if the patch/ball combination is too loose - again, in my opinion. It can not build up with a tight, properly lubricated combination.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 07:44:08 PM by Daryl »
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Offline Gene Carrell

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2014, 04:47:03 AM »
I took a 36cal flintlock to the range this afternoon, fired 30 shots w/o cleaning and brought it home to clean. I used a 0.350rb with 0.018 pillow tick patch lubed with mink oil (the rifle is used for squirrel hunting and may carry a load for a few hrs) and charged with 45gr 3Fg. The last shot charged just like the second shot, one shot dirty. It took 4 patches to clean up with cool tap water, one wet to 'pump' the bore and three to dry before soaking the bore with WD40 to displace any residual water. I have found buildup to be a loading problem more often than a lube problem. Check your used shooting patches for blowby.
Gene

Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 12:35:15 PM »
    When was Tows mink oil formula changed, now is has a different color( bees wax) maybe, it use to be white.With the price of pure mink oil i dought theres a lot of mink oil in it.They do call it Trappers Pure Mink Oil but maybe that's just a play on words . Curt
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 12:40:08 PM by Curt Lyles »

Offline oldways

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2014, 04:14:32 PM »
This past month here in Ohio's early muzzle loader season I used my 50 cal. with a cast 490 rb and .028 bluejean material patch lubed with tracks mink oil. I use 85 grs. of 2f goex its a pretty snug fit. I missed two deer early in the day 'then moved to a different spot. I shot a doe and knew i had hit her so i didn't reload. I tracked her for an hour and a half'lost blood trail'called a friend and we looked for another hour. My point is i had another deer come out and went to load 'couldn't get the ball seated 'so what gives?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2014, 03:39:58 AM »
Gene- your results mirror mine, although I used a .32 with 38" bl. I was using a .311"x.311" ball with the heavy railroad ticking (drk blue/red/light blue/white) we were able to get for a while, but no longer. It went .0235 in my calipers compressed as hard as I could the jaws pinched between forefinger and thumb.
I felt the first load was actually harder to seat on the powder than the subsequent shots for the whole day. I didn't fire more than 55 shots. I used Track's mink oil, heated on a hot plate and my pre-cut patches saturated in it, then squeezed out between finger and thumb, then placed in the patch box inside my shooting bag.   They were certainly very oily. This was a winter shoot, and I used 35g.r 3f as the charge. Later testing at 50yards showed 40gr. with the mink oil gave the same poi and accuracy as 35 had with the normal water based lube I use.
   
As you noted, cleanup is easy - one for flushing out the 'dirt' and 4 for drying, then spray with DW40, then one to wipe out the excess.
Daryl

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2014, 08:25:19 PM »
This past month here in Ohio's early muzzle loader season I used my 50 cal. with a cast 490 rb and .028 bluejean material patch lubed with tracks mink oil. I use 85 grs. of 2f goex its a pretty snug fit. I missed two deer early in the day 'then moved to a different spot. I shot a doe and knew i had hit her so i didn't reload. I tracked her for an hour and a half'lost blood trail'called a friend and we looked for another hour. My point is i had another deer come out and went to load 'couldn't get the ball seated 'so what gives?

Had you loaded right away, you'd have had no problem as the previously oiled patch would have left enough 'oil' in the bore to keep it soft for the reload. How much oil was in the patch prior to shooting that shot, might have something to do with how well 'wet' the fouling was.

Once the bore had time to 'dry', the fouling left in there became firmly stuck or adhered to the bore & dry, making if difficult to load.

I think the time span involved between shots is a very good reason to develop wiped bore accuracy loads for rifles used in long, drawn-out competitions.  The fouling will dry, making loading difficult or impossible.

I have noticed at Hefley Rendezvous when on the firing line and not shooting for a period of time, even though using a water based lube, the fouling has dried and feels a bit resistant to that loading- a big crunchy in the bottom area where more fouling tends to collect.

 I still go ahead and  load with the combinations I use and the almost dripping wet patches, all that fouling is wiped down as I load. I have not noticed a loss in accuracy - that is fuel for another test - testing variables is never finished.
Daryl

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Vomitus

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Re: Mink Oil
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 08:35:56 PM »
   Moleyes, I use a little Lehigh Vlly. lube on a patch to clean out the bore after shooting with a grease/oil for hunting. I feel your pain as far as cleanup goes. After water and soap,try soaking a cleaning patch with Mr. Flintstone and run it through your bore a few times. Then patch it dry. This may save you some time.