Ferree 1782

[spgordon]

I would be interested to know what others think about the rifle pictured in John Kolar's article in the Fall 2014 issue of the KRA Bulletin. The article is excellent, but most of it re-tells the events of Easter Sunday 1782 rather than analyzes the rifle itself. John states at the start that this rifle was manufactured by Joel Ferree "in the late 1770s" and then again at the end that it was "made by gunsmith Joel Ferree...between 1775 and 1780." He adds that "this rifle is thought by many to have been the one used by Ann Hupp in the defense of the Miller Block house on Easter Sunday in 1782."

The rifle also appears in the Lancaster Long Rifle book with similar proposed date. But no reason is given for the very specific dating of the rifle (1775-1780) either in that book or in the recent KRA Bulletin.

Is it mainly the provenance of the rifle (held in the Miller family until the 1990s) that suggests this date? I assume the lock, furniture, etc., point to this late 1770s date as well?

[Moved this question from another thread]

[Eric Kettenburg]

Not my specific area of expertise but I would have to assume that the primary attribution of the rifle is based upon provenance - this seems to be touched upon in the article.  As for the very specific dating, I would proffer the opinion that it is the only way to ensure that the rifle fits the story and date of the event, i.e. given some of the details of the rifle, I personally would have a hard time pushing it much further back than @ very late 1770s or early 1780s, so for it to have been used in 1782, it must necessarily have been a practically new rifle.  I mean this with all neutrality, as I have not seen the rifle first hand nor are Lancaster area pieces my primary area of interest; it simply makes the most sense to me.

[spgordon]

Thanks, Eric. I suppose what I was thinking is that the provenance does not date the rifle to any time--only to a family. They could have obtained the rifle in 1775 or 1795 or 1805 (or in 1885, for that matter: who knows how families come to possess objects?). So I was wondering what the rifle itself suggests about its date ....

[JTR]

True, family history can sometimes be a bit optimistic, but it can also be true, so I wouldn't discount it altogether regarding the gun.

As for the gun itself, I don't see why it couldn't date from the time period. It has some 'early' traits such as the wide butt, high grip rail on the trigger guard, and an early style of lock.
It's also thought to be a product of Ferree while he was still in Lancaster, and he moved out to Western PA in 1784/1786. Once out west, at least one rifle shows a change in patchbox finial style.

I have to say I've never handled this rifle, but have, if not a twin, at least a brother to this gun, made after this one, and probably made when he first arrived in Western PA, and I could see my rifle dating to the mid 80s.

But when you get right down to it, there will never be any absolute proof of when the gun was made.

John

[spgordon]

I didn't question the story that John Kolar offered linking the rifle to the event. I'm just asking for assessments of the (rough) dates that seem likely for rifle itself, since the article didn't offer that.

True, family history can sometimes be a bit optimistic, but it can also be true, so I wouldn't discount it altogether regarding the gun.

There is no "family history" about the rifle whatsoever, at least as far as this article indicates. The article states only that in the early 1990s the rifle "was held in the family directly descended from Jacob Miller, Sr."

Scott

[JTR]

From my first post above

"As for the gun itself, I don't see why it couldn't date from the time period. It has some 'early' traits such as the wide butt, high grip rail on the trigger guard, and an early style of lock.
It's also thought to be a product of Ferree while he was still in Lancaster, and he moved out to Western PA in 1784/1786. Once out west, at least one rifle shows a change in patchbox finial style."

John

[Eric Kettenburg]

I'd justify my own dating of it based upon the fact that I have a very hard time putting that much refinement of the 'daisy' box design, as well as the sideplate design, much before the 1780s.  The size of the gun/butt is secondary to my way of thinking; yes, its a factor, but the piece has to be viewed as a whole.  I've seen guns that I would interpret as fairly early that did not have giant buttstock dimensions, and vice versa, guns that I believe are early Federal era pieces with 'larger than typical' butts.

[JTR]

That's true Eric, that early traits are just indicators.

The story, the Family Lore, is what tends to date the rifle to that specific place and period. And looking at the pictures of the rifle doesn't show me anything that says it couldn't have been made then.

Unfortunately no one has turned up a document describing the rifle, and signed J. Ferree.

John

[mr. no gold]

Here is the basic story on the recent history of the Miller's Blockhouse rifle as it was related to me at the time of its finding.
A small auction house south of Pittsburgh held an auction of items on a cold night with freezing rain. Noted P'burgh rifle collector Dr. Herron had heard that a PA marked Ferree rifle was going to be sold, but the weather dissuaded him from going as he was elderly and didn't like to go out on such a night. He phoned a fellow named Don and told him about the gun. Don lived further east, but felt that attending the auction might be worth the trip.
As you might expect, the event was lightly attended, and prices were low. Don bid on the rifle and won it for a price under 2K, as I recall. Sounds low, but this was 20 odd years ago. As Don cashed out and started to leave, a worker called out to him that a packet of family papers accompanied the gun.
Once home, Don looked over the paperwork and was excited to read of the battle that took place then, and the account referred to this rifle as having been used to defend against the Indians. No one that I know has contested the role of the gun that day, nor the account of the battle.
As to the rifle, Don displayed it at the KRA a time or two, and I had the good fortune to see it there. When sold at the
auction, the gun was in percussion and had some wood missing.  Don had it put right and kept it for a long time; there were many potential buyers for it.
At the time of the KRA article, I was unaware that it has since changed hands, but am delighted that interest in it has revived.
In my opinion, it is one of the more significant rifles today that has a traceable history. Lucky fellow that owns it today!
Dick

[spgordon]

As Don cashed out and started to leave, a worker called out to him that a packet of family papers accompanied the gun.
Once home, Don looked over the paperwork and was excited to read of the battle that took place then, and the account referred to this rifle as having been used to defend against the Indians. No one that I know has contested the role of the gun that day, nor the account of the battle.

I guess there is "family history." I wonder why John didn't quote from those papers in his KRA Article. Would be interesting to know what these papers say.

[eastwind]

I was pleased to see Dick's piece on the "finding of the Ferree Miller Blockhouse rifle". To complete the story -  John and I borrowed the rifle for our Lancaster Long Rifle Exhibit in 2012 from the current owner for the exhibit and the book. It is now owned by a family of some means and importance to the historic scene in Lancaster who were obviously swayed by the fact that the wife is a Ferree. Sometime after Dick's story ends, John Kolar got the rifle and along with a noted Lancaster antiques dealer sold the rifle to the current owner. It is doubtful it will be offered again in the nearby future. Incidentally, rubble from the Ferree gunshop can still be found in Lancaster.

  As to Scott's point of dating the rifle - like Eric, I too have found that the usual indicators we tend to rely on to date rifles are often defeated by another rifle's total specifications which are more easily identified and dated, e.g. stock/butt designs. Unless the gun is dated we can never be sure of the date and even when engraved with a date, such as the " Meillin 1705" rifle, one still has to be cautious and knowledgeable.

The Ferree is not a very special rifle in the sense of design or craftsmanship, carving etc. But if the Miller Blockhouse connection is true, it is an important rifle in the annals of long rifle history as Dick stated. Too bad we don't find more guns with such cool provenance.

Patrick Hornberger

[mr. no gold]

Patrick, thank you for bringing us up to date on the Ferree rifle, and I think we can be glad that it has gone back to the family. I am guessing that they will take excellent care of it for a long time to come. As to the remains of Ferree's shop, it is out toward Strasburg where the 'old Ferree' home stands today. Oddly, it is a bit of a distance from the house, perhaps half a block in modern terms. I walked over to it once; there isn't much to see as Patrick said. 
When Don owned the gun, it was his pride and joy. That he no longer owns it brings the thought that he may not be with us anymore. Hope that is not the case, though I don't see his name in the KRA directory either.
Speaking personally, there have been no doubts in my mind that the rifle is old enough to have at the fight. It certainly is a 1700s gun and comports with other early Ferree rifles as well as pieces by other early makers in Lancaster. Perhaps the documents accompanying the rifle can be made available. Patrick, is the something that might be done?
In any event, thank you again for the rest of the story.
Dick

[debnal]

This is a good discussion that it dear to my heart. I collect Revolutionary War long guns and have always wanted a Rev War rifle for my collection. There are so many opinions as to what a Rev War rifle looks like. In the same KRA bulletin that the Ferree rifle appears in, I have written an article on a Rev War rifle I found with Bunker Hill/Siege of Boston association/provenance. But, the association has to be supported by the "look" of the actual rifle associated with it. As I look at the Ferree rifle I have mixed emotions on its dating. It is a fully evolved Kentucky Rifle and I don't know if that occurred prior/during/just after the Rev War.
I have added a picture of a rifle I just recently acquired. Bill Guthman found it years ago and discussed it in a the KRA Bulletin. The barrel is signed John Annely and Bill thought this referred to a John Annely who worked in New York in the early 1800's. He speculated that Anelly worked on the gun later in the gun's life. Since I have gotten the rifle I have obtained documentation that a John Annely, gunsmith, (perhaps the father of the one in New York) lived in the New York/New Jersey/PA area from the 1740-1780 period. Perhaps he was the maker of this rifle. But, in relation to this discussion- the rifle exhibits some very early characteristics and does have the "look". For this gun they are: very wide butt, shorter/heavier swamped barrel, rudimentary patchbox design, thicker wrist, no curvature to the butt, and of course, possibly an early maker's signature. Perhaps this is an early rifle of the Rev War period.
Al

[jdm]

AL,
I'm glad you have that rifle. I have admired it sense I first read Bill's article in the K.R.A. bulletin years ago. It is a gun that speaks early Americana.  I didn't see it in the auction items of his and wondered where it landed.

[mr. no gold]

One of the Annelys was armorer to the colony/state of New Jersey during the Rev. War. I have a grand blunderbuss made by him and it was likely to have been made just prior to the war. There are not many guns by him; yours Al, and there may be a pistol bearing that name.
Dick

[rich pierce]

Not to derail, but I would love to see more pictures of the Annely rifle.

[debnal]

Rich,
Would love to post more but it is a  pain in the butt to do it on this site. Send me a PM and I will get more to you.
Al

[RAT]

No expert but that patchbox looks 1780's-1790's Berks co. to me.

[Fullstock longrifle]

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this, but I remember Bill Guthman's article about this gun and Bill felt this rifle was from the period of the Rev War. I agree with his assessment.
Frank

[mr. no gold]

Frank, I'm with you. This gun reeks of 'early.'  The squared, flat, thick  butt, the early patchbox which appearss to have been conceived as a two piece, (lid and early finial), and completed with overshot sideplates, and the engraved "Liberty" on the door does it for me. I don't need to see anymore. Nice of you Al to bring it to the table for us to look at. Thank you!!!
Dick