Dating of stocks with grease holes

[smart dog]

Hi Folks,
Last Saturday I presented my Reading inspired gun to Morgan's Rifle Corps.  It was fun.  I got to wear a tricorn, frock coat, knee breeches, and really uncomfortable shoes.  At the event, one of the rifleman asked about the chronology of guns with simple grease holes in the stock.  He wanted to know if they were a post Rev War feature or could a simple rifle from the war have a grease hole?  I mentioned that I though it possible because Neuman shows a rifle in "Battle Weapons of the American Revolution" with a hole but I make no claims about his dating.  Consequently, I though I would ask members of this site.

Thanks,

dave

[Keb]

I'd ask them fellas over at the Frontier Folks site. There are a couple guys there that know everything.

[David R. Pennington]

That would be a hard one for even an original positively dated to pre Rev War could have had the hole bored later.

[Dphariss]

I consider the grease hole to be a great way to use lapping compound for patch lube.

Dan

[Dennis Glazener]

He wanted to know if they were a post Rev War feature or could a simple rifle from the war have a grease hole?  I mentioned that I though it possible because Neuman shows a rifle in "Battle Weapons of the American Revolution" with a hole but I make no claims about his dating.

I don't know but I would suspect that the first "grease hole" was the patchbox cavity. I have seen several old rifles that had patchbox's or cap boxes with the cavity full of tallow. Wouldn't take long for an old mountain gun maker to say why bother with the cover.

I might note that the earliest Gillespie rifles had rectangular grease boxes made very much like a patchbox cavity.

I've seen a David Dodds reproduction of a very early gun (sq breech barrel and straight rifling) that had a grease hole. I suspect the original gun could have been used in the Revolution.
Dennis

[Dennis Glazener]

I've seen a David Dodds reproduction of a very early gun (sq breech barrel and straight rifling) that had a grease hole. I suspect the original gun could have been used in the Revolution.
Dennis

I found this in the Archive section of ALR I refers to the David Dodds gun mentioned above.

This is a contemporary piece made by David Dodds, and we refer to it simply as "the square breech rifle". The original from which this piece was faithfully copied is or was on display at the National Museum at Valley Forge, and I forget who owns the original. On the original the barrel was off a Dutch musket that came to the Colonies in 1741. The trigger guard was off a French musket, and the lock was  early English. It's generally thought that this piece, a mixmaster, was put togather in the Southern Colonies, possibly in southwest Virginia for service during the RevWar. Note the "taller hole" in the stock. I think one other piece has been made from the scaled plans taken from the original, and I heard that it was in Texas about 30+ years ago. If anyone can add any info, please do!
woodsrunner

[Mike Brooks]

I'd ask them fellas over at the Frontier Folks site. There are a couple guys there that know everything.

I thought I was the only one that knew everything.
My gut feeling is post 1820 for anything that was made new with a grease hole. I made myself a .32 Mt.rifle 30 years ago and like Dan found that all the grease hole full of grease did was attract dirt. which I suppose is OK if that sort of thing doesn't bother you.

[smart dog]

Hi Guys,
Thanks.  This is not a question about whether to make a gun with a tallow hole, or if it is a good practice, but rather someone made an early rifle with one and wanted to know if I thought it appropriate for a Rev War gun, considering several folks told him that it was a later 19th century feature on some southern guns.  I remembered the rifle Neuman showed, which I think is the rifle that you referred to Dennis, in his book on Rev War weapons.  Certainly, the hole would not present a technical challenge for a 1770's gunsmith, so there is no material reason why it would not be appropriate.  However, there may be cultural or fashion reasons why it was not be used during in the Rev War period.  That is why I posed the question.

Thanks Dave, Dennis, and Mike for your insights.

dave