Period leather dyes

[Clark Badgett]

I am typing this as I await for my jar of black mess that started out as cider vinegar and steel wool to strain through the shop cloth into it's new jar, that will contain what I hope to be some decent stock stain. As I am waiting I am also playing around with some small leather samples and rubbing the stuff on the leather just to see what I get. The unstrained mess turned the leather a dark gray nearly black and the sediment that I have scraped off the rag has turned the leather a nice period looking black. As soon as I am done I will see what color the strained liquid will give me. This is kinda fun, maybe I'll try some other stuff to see if I can find something natural that will make a nice medium brown, like tobacco. I once darkened a new surplus MRT M1903 sling with BP soot and it is now a nice deep medium brown. Any one else got any recipes for old style leather dye?

[Collector]

I'm just curious, but won't you have to neutralize this cider vinegar/steel wool dye that you've applied to the leather?  Personally, I really like dark leather.

[G. Elsenbeck]

I too have been playing around with mixture and have tried it on several pieces of wood laying around.  So far it turns cherry into a rich dark brown, white oak almost black and walnut, well a dark piece of walnut.  It will stain red oak a nice brown color as well.  The solution reacts with the tannin in the wood.  So far I have mixed results with maple, either soft or hard, but is interesting what you get with various woods. 
I normally use this on all my leather products which does turn veg tanned leather a nice dark brown/black combination.   The cherry, most of the time will turn out looking like 300 year old piece of furniture.  Haven't tried it on apple yet, but will later today to see what I get.  I haven't tried any neutralizing yet as I usually put the mixture on the wood and leave overnight.  Then I use a moistened cloth to wipe up any lingering residue and let dry again.  So far, any sanding leaves the stain still in the wood as opposed to 'on the wood'. 
Just my observations so far.
Gary

[Jefferson58]

I have been using the vinegar / rusty iron dye for about a year now. My experience is only with veg. tanned leather. I find that the initial color when wet is an intense blue/black, but turns to a medium gray as it dries. Applying more dye does not seem to darken the color significantly.

T.C. Albert shows this in his book. He notes that the pouch turns a gray color, and then darkens it with shoe polish to achieve the dark brown color. I use different diluted Fiebings dyes to get the same effect, but this is moving away from the traditional approach. However, there are some nice shadings that can be obtained this way.

I have also tried walnut hull dye, but have not really been satisfied with the results, no matter how long it stays in the dye vat.

I am also very interested in the traditional dye methods and would welcome any input on this topic from those with more experience.

Jeff

[Clark Badgett]

I've talked with many a excellent leather craftsmen that specialize making stuff only with the old ways, and have yet to find a good brown leather dye. Most just say they oil the natural until it becomes the color they want, which I've not had any luck with.

The Vinegar and steel wool solution came out the same medium gray upon drying. When I rubbed the paste like substance that I filtered out it turned a nice subtle black, very close to many old dyed military accoutrements I've veiwed.

[Levy]

I remember reading on one of the websites discussing McClellan Saddles that the contractors building them used vinegar and iron stain to turn the saddle leather black.

James Levy

[Mad Monk]

Regarding PERIOD leather dyes.

While chrome tanning of leather began early in the 1800's in Englnd it did not take hold in the U.S. until late in the 1800's and then only for particular types of leather.  Bark tnning and chrome tanning produce leathers with different properties besides different colors.

The color of old leathers depended on how they had been tanned.  The type of bark used in the tanning process gave distinct colors.  Here in PA chestnut bark was the most commonly used tanbark.  Some oak was used also.  When you get up into New York state they used hemlock bark.

Coloring matter in the tanbark was impregnated into the leather giving shades of brown through redish brown, depending on the bark used.

You might want to experiment with bark.  Extracting some with water to get the color out of it.

In the old leather tanning process there was a step called "dunging".  After the hide had been in the lime bath and dehaired they would put the hides in tnks or pits with dung and water.  This removed any remaining lime or any copper salts that had been used to protect the hide on the way to the tannery.  Some tanneries had specific preferences for what sort of dung was to be used.  In one early 1900's industrial chemistry book on various leather making processes they cite one tannery purchasing dog dung.  The magic ingredient in the dung, as far as the tanning process went, was the ammonia.  This removed any copper salts and residual lime.  the dung also added color to the leather since the dung would be rich in iron which the animal kicked out of it's body in the dung.
Which is bout hat you would be oing with the vinegar/iron dye.

One of the last steps in the taning process was known as "stuffing".  The hides would be given  coaing of a non-oxidizable oil or fat.  Then tumbled in a barrel for a number of hours.  The hides out of the bark tanning pits/tanks would be stiff and hard.  By working an oil or fat into the hide it gave hat is known as "internal lubrication" in the leather mking it soft and pliable.  The oil or fat used was selected to not attack the leather.  Nor should it dry or harden like linseed oil will do.  During the 1900's a lot of Menhaden fish oil was used for this.  This step also darkened the leather a good bit.
I am not certain on this but I think they may have used "wool grease" before the fish oil cam into use.  Wool grease being the old term for lanolin.

Some leathers, especially harness leather, were given a good coating of linseed oil to help waterproof it.  Linseed oil that had been cooked with a bit of sulfur added.  This gave a very black "boiled" oil.  Linseed oil cooked with sulfur was used to make "patent leather" which goes way bak in time.

Excuse any typos.  Gotta get another keyboard for this thing.  Have two and both are about done for.

But maybe the info presented will help.

[G. Elsenbeck]

Great historical information by Mad Monk!  Now we'll all be stripping the local trees looking for the magical color 
Being the impatient sort, has anyone got some bark tanned leather they might want to get rid of? 

[G. Elsenbeck]

Here's a nice website for those interested in the different colors one gets using the different kinds of bark mentioned by Mad Monk.  Enjoy.
http://www.jarnaginco.com/hemlock.htm

gary

[Chuck Burrows]

To help turn the vinegar/iron reagent to a true black give a quick soak in a bath of baking soda or washing soda water - about a 1/2 cup to a half gallon of water. It not only will neutralize any excess acid but heps prevent iron burn and also speeds up getting rid of the smell. FWIW- I've been using it for better than 35 years.
Another period leather dye is logwood and it will give from a black to a dark brown.
For some brown's use oil as noted - Extra Virgin Olive Oil is one of the best or Neatsfoot - apply a LIGHT coat or two and then hang in direct sunlight to oxidize.
Linseed oil will work also but since it's a drying oil it will eventually crackle the finish. A mix of linseed oil and other items was used to produce patent leather in the early 1800's.
Other browns and/or gray shades can be produced with various nutshells: the "dreaded" walnut, pecan, and butternut can be used. For leather I reduce it down to syrup consistency
An alternative dye albeit not necessarily period:
Coffee for brown - brew a STRONG batch of dark French roast and strain/filter out the grounds or you can use instant. Reduce by 1/3 to 1/2.

Other than the oils mentioned all of the above dyes will tend to dry out the leather - once dyed and while still damp apply a good conditioner. Either of the oils mentioned will work or you can use any kind of tallow or pure lard, both period methods, or my favorite, albeit modern, is Lexol Conditioner (a synthetic whale oil) which has been formulated to slow the evaporation and keep the oils in the leather followed by a light coat of EVOO.

I can post pics later of the coffee and nut effect if so desired.

[Mad Monk]

For black all you need to do is to follow an iron vinegar stain with a solution of tannic or gallic acid.  That will turn the iron black the same way the curl turns black on an iron stained rifle.

[acorn20]

A buddy and I decided to try our hand at tanning a hide when we were younger and more ambitious.  Instead of jumping right in with a deer hide we thought a groundhog hide was more our size to start out.  We both removed the hair with an ash solution.  He wanted a chrome tan and was going to use some kind of acid.  I wanted a bark tan and boiled walnut hulls on advice from my grandfather.  I don't know what type of acid Keith used but it ended up eating his hide.  Mine turned out a nice, rich medium brown color.  After rinsing the hide several times, I stretched and tacked it to dry.  After drying I lightly dampened the hide and applied neats foot oil and proceeded to "break" the hide over a rounded board that I had secured in a vise.  That's when the work begins.  That hide became pliable and I made a wallet out of that skin.  The color stayed fast in the leather until the wallet wore out.

Dan

[Jefferson58]

Definitely some useful information here. This has been a very helpful discussion.

In regard to Chuck's reply, how long do you typically put the leather in the sun after applying the oil?

Also, I don't know about everyone else, but I would like to see the photos of the "brown" shades from the barks.

Thanks,

Jeff

[G. Elsenbeck]

Jeff, see my earlier reply and click on the link.
Gary

[PINYONE]

Boys to much work here! Tandy Leather dark brown, all you need, Pinyone