Cleaning patch and jag stuck in barrel

[RonC]

Looks like the cleaning patch was a bit too big for the 45 cal barrel. The patch and the knurled jag are stuck all the way down the barrel. I have tried to 2-person pull; the T of the rod in the vise and 1 person pull; and the hit the T portion with a rubber mallet technique, to no avail. Any suggestions would be appreciated.Thanks,
Ron

[jamesthomas]

 Have you tried shooting it out? if you have a patent breech you should be able to do it.

[EC121]

Did you put some lube or bore cleaner down the barrel and let it soak into the patch before pulling?  A dry bore and tight,dry patch will be hard to pull.

[William Worth]

If everything else has failed, try threading a grease zert into the breech end and use a grease gun to pump it out.  Is it a percussion?

[retired fella]

I don't know that I would try shooting it out.  Could be an expensive and painful try at a fix.  Sounds like you have a burr or extention into the bore by (touch hole liner or drum in the case of a percussion.  Can you debreach and try to push the problem out the breach end?

[Daryl]

I don't know that I would try shooting it out.  Could be an expensive and painful try at a fix.  Sounds like you have a burr or extention into the bore by (touch hole liner or drum in the case of a percussion.  Can you debreach and try to push the problem out the breach end?

Those were my thoughts as well - but not attempting to shoot it out - with a store bought rifle, could even be a sections of threads catchign the patch and jag, or even a space between the t\plug and bore - THAT will hold her fast.
Judging by the efforts so far, sounds as if it's caught in a gap.  If not, putting lube down and using a rubber mallet on the T handle or two people must be able to pull it out. Never heard of such a thing, otherwise- sorry.

[RonC]

Thank you for the suggestions, folks!
It is a percussion.
I will look for a grease fitting that might fit into the nipple area and try to push it out.
First, I will put some lube down there and see if it makes it easier to extract or disturbs the fibers of the patch.
One person recommended that I put 5 gr of 3F powder down under the nipple and shoot it out. I must admit to being a little nervous about that.
Ron

[Mad Monk]

Have you tried shooting it out? if you have a patent breech you should be able to do it.

Oh does that bring back memories.  In my .45 caliber flinter.  Worked a bunch of 4f into the vent after trying other methods.  Fired it.  Uh Oh!!
Grain on the ramrod was not all that straight.  So the ramrod split.  Leaving me with the patched jag and part of the ramrod wedged in the bore. 
So I did what I should have done to start and removed the breech plug.

Forgot to mention.  With the breech full of priming powder the entire charge vented through the vent.
It was all rather funny to watch the smoke and gas come out the vent with a big hissing sound.

Mad Monk

[C. Cash]

Run oil like ballistol down the bore and let it soak.  Find a way to get a good grip on the ramrod.  One to hold and one to pull.

[PPatch]

Don't mind me Ron, I'm just here in the corner watching. This ought to be good...

I sympathise, I too have wedged a patch and jag down near the breech. Fortunately I was able to remove it with some lube oil, a long soak  and a hard pull.

Good luck, stay safe.

dp

[RonC]

I just put some Ballistol down the tube. Perhaps, maybe, I hope, possibly, it might work like for some of you.

Now for a mental picture: my 100 lb wife at one end and me pulling at the other at 235 lbs .

Actually, I will wait for my son to stop over.
Ron

[Standing Bear]

unscrew the jag from the rod, put 3 gr or so of 4F under the nipple (yea even per-suction shooters need 4F) and shoot the jag into a box of rags.
TC

[RonC]

IT'S DONE!!
Let it soak with Ballistol I injected from the under the nipple and from the end of the barrel. Soaked for a few hours and tried the rubber mallet routine.
I had removed the barrel, laid it down on the work table, held it down with one hand and tapped the T-handle with the mallet. Bit by bit it started to extract. Finally, it was out! It was black as  pitch and thick with powder residuals.
It didn't hurt that I recited several incantations from remote regions of the world. 
Thank you all for your suggestions!!
Ron

[WadePatton]

unscrew the jag from the rod, put 3 gr or so of 4F under the nipple (yea even per-suction shooters need 4F) and shoot the jag into a box of rags.
TC

2F will work dandy as well.  axx me how i know! 

[EC121]

Excellent!!  I've seen ranges with two nails driven close together up high in the wood of the roof.  You can put the end of the range rod between the nails and pull the rod with body weight.

[George Sutton]

Years ago I watched a man try to shoot a jag out of his barrel. Halfway up the barrel the jag decided to run off course and it wedged itself in the barrel. Fortunately the remaining charge burned itself out the touch hole with a loud hissing sound. The barrel was completely ruined.  NOT a Good Idea.

Centershot

[EC121]

I used to shoot an old original shotgun.  The chambers were burnt out and one day I got the jag and patch stuck in the chamber.  10-15gr. of 2f shot the whole wooden rod about 75yds. into the trees up on a hillside.  Fortunately, it was a rod another fellow had loaned me.     We were so impressed with how far it went that he didn't ask for a replacement.  Jack Garner used to bring bundles of made up rods to sell at our shoots.   It was easy to get another.

[iloco]

I had a rod to get stuck due to the drum threads not be flush with the inside of the barrel.
  I loaded it up with lots of oil and next day it took some effort but I did get it unstuck and removed.
Looking at your picture and at the size you are something has to give when you put pressure on that ram rod.

[Bob Roller]

I heard of a man in Germany who had a new made American production muzzle loader and ir was a 45 with a 50 caliber breech.He stuck a rod and patch in that breech cavity,couldn't move it and then propped the gun up against a tree and walked off and left it.
He had some fine hand made rifles at home but bought the mass produced one to hunt with but the bad experience soured him on inexpensive guns.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Clamp the rod in a vise and pull hard on the rifle.

Bob Roller

[heelerau]

I just put some Ballistol down the tube. Perhaps, maybe, I hope, possibly, it might work like for some of you.

Now for a mental picture: my 100 lb wife at one end and me pulling at the other at 235 lbs .

Actually, I will wait for my son to stop over.
Ron
[/quote
Ron , good on you mate, a good outcome.   to be frank I am not that much enamoured of said brass jags, I tend to use a worn out bronze brush as a jag, with the flannel wrapped around that. It cleans well, and does not seem to get that badly stuck if I stuff up,  Bobs vice trick works if I do get it jammed. I have had several near nasty experiences with the brass jags.

Cheers

Gordon

[PPatch]

Glad you got'er out without any pyrotechnics Ron. That idea was scaring me.

dave

[RonC]

I wanted to try the vise method, but I told my wife I had no vices.
I put the rod in the vise and pulled...and the whole wooden table that held the vise came along for the ride.

At least now I can say I have experienced in my last 2 years of muzzloading activities many of the afflictions associated with the hobby. I have had dry balls (cured with judicial use of a screw-in ball extractor); patches stuck in the bore (removed with a patch tool of 2, coiled wires); patch and jag sticking disease; tight nipples; obstructed nipples; and other assorted maladies. There always is something interesting going on! When I was young, I would have found these very aggravating. At almost 68, it just means it never gets boring.
Ron

[WadePatton]

Years ago I watched a man try to shoot a jag out of his barrel. Halfway up the barrel the jag decided to run off course and it wedged itself in the barrel. Fortunately the remaining charge burned itself out the touch hole with a loud hissing sound. The barrel was completely ruined.  NOT a Good Idea.

Centershot

no thing is fools proof.

3 or 5 grains per "poof" is the trick.  i'll always shoot out whatever i get stuck if i can get powder behind it.  but this tow never gets stuck.  maybe i don't dryball again!

[T*O*F]

1.  Use jags with 10-32 threads, not 8-32.  Less likely to break off and remain in barrel.
2.  Use the next size smaller jag and double patch it; ie, 45 in a 50, 50 in a 54, 54 in a 58, etc.  With a double patch, you get 4 wipes by rotating to a clean face.
3.  Cut 4 vertical grooves in your jag 90 degrees apart.  It gives additional gripping power on your cleaning patches.