.54 caliber Dickert build

[Hessian]

I have a .54 cal Dickert precarve that I am building. Originally, I wanted it. Now, getting older and more recoil sensitive, I'm gravitating towards smaller caliber Southern guns. I think most Dickerts were brass mounted & fancy were they not? I wanted to do a sort of "Southern Dickert" with iron furnature, no patchbox, a simpler gun. What do you think? Am I wasting my time? Should I just abort this project & start a .36 Southern?
 

[jerrywh]

 Recoil doesn't bother me much unless I am target shooting. I have found that it is the length of pull and the weight that gets to me. The best rifle I ever had was a dicker 50 cal. with a swamped A weight barrel and a 13 1/2" pull.
 Where you live and what you do with it depends a lot on the gun you ought to have. If you live out west you need a bigger cal. because of  we hunt elk, bears and mule deer in open country. Back east is different.  I just hunted white tails and wolves were running around out there. Taylor hunts moose and needs a big gun. So all that  needs to be considered.   Since you don't tell on your profile where you live or how old you are there is no way for anybody but you to determine those factors.

[flinchrocket]

  You might want to look through the southern long arms  in the ALR library!

[smart dog]

Hi,
Dickert did not always make fancy carved rifles.  He made plain ones and probably a lot of them.  He made plain military "contract rifles" as well.  A plain "Dickert" is not really something to be concerned about.

dave

[okieboy]

 There is a fairly plain J. Dickert shown in r. Gales' For Trade and Treaty. Unfortunately only the lock side is shown, but it is shown full length. It is pretty easy to imagine this rifle done up in southern iron (not Tennessee). Also, I don't know of any rules against making up a regular plain Dickert in .36 caliber if you can fit a .36 barrel to your precarve. I think it really depends on what you want to end up with.

[JTR]

I don't remember ever seeing an un-carved Dickert. That being said, I'm sure there's an un-carved one out there someplace, but at the time that Dickert worked, a rifle with some carving was pretty much the norm. Un-carved Dickert & Gill rifles are known. His Military rifles have no resemblance to his regular rifle, so don't know the point of mentioning that.

But, since you already have the pre-carve, you could always buy a smaller caliber barrel, but with added weight. If you made it with no patchbox and iron furniture, no one would recognize it as a Dickert anyway.

As you mention, maybe just selling this one and starting with a small cal southern would be a better idea. Long and slender, light, no recoil, and plenty accurate,,, what's not to like!

John

[PPatch]

Maybe look into locating a .45 caliber barrel that will fit the pre-carve profile. Finish it out plain. I'm sure there were lots of those back in the day. Working guns. If you can't find another barrel then sell the Dicket and put the money toward a southern rifle.

A 36 caliber southern gun is a delight to shoot, plus you can shoot 00 buck as your round ball, so yeah, make one.

dave

[Mike Brooks]

I'd not go with a iron mounted lancaster, but it's your gun. There was a  1790's dickert that turned up locally here that was plain , no carving, with a brass box and birds eye maple. Gov. contact gun.

[Hessian]

I'd imagine a .36 caliber barrel would make a very heavy gun. I guess I'll just set it aside. There's no rule about having multiple porjects, is there?

[Long John]

The amount of recoil you will have to deal with is determined by the mass of the gun and stock architecture.  A true Dickert stock profile is about as good a profile for minimizing felt recoil as you are going to find.  While the 54 caliber barrel will be a little lighter than its 50 caliber counterpart or a 45 in the same barrel profile you don't have to load that 54 too hot.  I know folks that are using 60 grains of GOEX 3Fg powder in a 54 and have a very mild-mannered gun.

With a pre-carved stock you have one that was made around a specific barrel profile and the barrel makers can make a 45 caliber barrel with the exact same exterior dimensions.  That will give you additional mass to soak-up recoil while maintaining the same balance.  That is an option you might want to consider before scrapping the project.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Jerry V Lape]

Without knowing how far along you may be with the build, why not put the stock and barrel on the items for sale forum of this board and start over with what you really want.  It would be difficult for me to do my best work on a build I really did not want.  Another option if you have gone too far with the build might be to just finish it out as a shimmel shooter without all the features like butt plate, rifle style trigger guard, entry pipe and nose cap.  Don Getz seemed to find a good market for well made shimmels.

[t.caster]

I've been shooting my .54 cal x 42" swamped brrl. Beck/Lebanon Pa. rifle for over 10 years and recoil has never been a problem even with a hunting load of 85 grs. 2f. An early Lancaster shape is similar to it, with a 2" wide butt plate, you get a slightly heavier stock that will absorb recoil. When I first built it I thought it was too light at the muzzle, but now at 65 I find it just right for my older body! My normal load is 65 grs. 2f.

I am getting started on another .54 x 46" early Dickert right now, that to me is quite a simple style with moderate carving and a side opening patchbox that looks like a wooden one (in blk & white photo). You could also make a wooden pb or no pb at all on this one. I have pics of a signed (restored) Andreas Albrecht (Christian Spring/Lancaster)rifle that is nearly identical to the Dickert, showing Jacob most likely worked for Andreas in his early years.

Good luck with whatever you do, but don't be afraid of the .54, unless say, it is a short barrel. And you didn't say what profile you have.

Tom C

[Dphariss]

I have a .54 cal Dickert precarve that I am building. Originally, I wanted it. Now, getting older and more recoil sensitive, I'm gravitating towards smaller caliber Southern guns. I think most Dickerts were brass mounted & fancy were they not? I wanted to do a sort of "Southern Dickert" with iron furnature, no patchbox, a simpler gun. What do you think? Am I wasting my time? Should I just abort this project & start a .36 Southern?
 

Build the Dickert in 50 cal and the problem goes away. Chances are Dickert made very few rifles over 50 cal anyway.
Changing plans in the middle of a build in never a good idea.
You really need to look at some of the Dickert Rifles out there. Many were not that highly decorated. To built a typical Dickert requires a patchbox and some carving.
 
Dan

[Mike R]

I have a .54 Dickert style longrifle and have no problem with recoil--it does have a rather heavy 42" Getz swamped barrel on it.  Been using 75-85 gr ffg and no problems.  I am 70 [as of Thanksgiving day].  I once had a .58 Hawken that I made with a pretty thick GRRW barrel and it was heavy--again recoil was manageable with 100+ gr ffg.  I traded it off to an elk hunter, but mainly because I wanted his .50 Keith Casteel flinter [and less powder costs to shoot it]. 

[StevenV]

Tom what is your definition of short barrel? I am looking to build a 7lb. 54cal. straight taper 15/16 to .800 at muzzle , the muzzle being 35" from breech plug. Trigger pull 13 3/8", with TOW E-2-B early york county butt plate. Too much "kick", would dropping another 8 to 12 oz. lead into butt behind butt plate help to absorb "Kick" Thanks Steve

[Hawken62_flint]

I don't want to offend anyone, but I have yet to understand the large bore, getting older, kicks too much thought pattern.  I am 64 years old and I love the big bores.  I have shot as much as 120 grains of FFG in my .62 Hawken and in my .62 Jaeger.  I get more of a shove than a kick and I am not sure what some people call a lot of recoil.  I am about 5"9" (have shrunk almost 2 inches over time) and I weigh about 185, not a big person at all.  Just saying, I don't understand it---if you want a .54, load it down to about 55 grains of powder--it will still shoot and it won't recoil as much as 80 or 90 grains.  Now, as for a plain iron mounted rifle---build what you want, but if you are a fanatic about PC or HC, then you have a problem.  Oh, and by the way, I just built a Dickert in all brass for my neighbor in .40 caliber.

[t.caster]

StevenV, Maybe I should have stated "short and skinny". I was thinking of a friends Hawken at 36" length. But that is about a 9~10 lb. rifle and he likes to shoot 90~100 grs. The barrel raises up when shot but it isn't a kick, just a push.
I have seen some factory made rifles that are lighter, short and skinny that look uncomfortable to shoot. Usually a longrifle with a straight comb, around 3 1/4" drop and little or no cast-off is not a problem at all. I think more than 3/16" cast-off can be a contributor to kicking, especially if it has a lot of drop and curved comb. That might start a whole 'nother discussion.
I seem to prefer building the early, up to and during, the Rev War rifles, with .50 or larger bores, including Jaegers.  Not into the fancier, lighter weight Golden age rifles, although I can and have built some nice ones.