CVA Hawken 12g shotgun came in!

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Well in the end, the seller and I worked out a deal for a partial refund as the kit stock had been worked up previously and was majorly messed up to the point it was firewood! Some idiot removed HALF the wood next to the tang on the lock side and so half of the tang was exposed! Hes going to refund enough to buy a new stock from deer creek. I can not complain, he could have told me to go pound sand 

As for the real gem, I already got the 12 gauge shotgun barrel added to my .58cal CVA Hawken stock. A little filing on the tenon and a little inside the channel where the wedge passes through was needed but other than that, both my .58cal barrel and the 12g barrel fit perfectly.

Can any of you tell me how rare this 12g Hawken barrel really is? Because I think its probably one of the rarest CVA guns I have owned PERIOD. I see the trapper and gobbler now and then but only once in my 30 years have I seen a 12gauge Hawken barrel.

[valongrifles]

Not really rare. If it were I would have sold/traded mine, knowing my record. CVA sold that gun in kit form with two barrels; one 12ga and one rifle.
My wife and kids gave me one for Father's Day bout 20 years(or more). also had the screw-in choke. Finished up neatly, but not like the T/C versions. Still have it. Probably should be using it. Grouped rather nicely.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

not rare my rear end! Ive only seen one barrel like it just recently 

[smylee grouch]

I'm wondering how that 12 ga. is going to shoot. It doesnt have a shotgun style stock and might be uncomfortable with any kind of decent load. Time will tell.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

thats one thing i fear most  Its pretty light weight now.

Can I use steel shot or am i limited to lead shot?

[Bull Shannon]

Lead shot only.

[Standing Bear]

Unless u r hunting waterfowl then u gotta use
Non lead usually steel.
TC

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

No wayer fowl, just grouse and bunnies.

[Hungry Horse]

 In my opinion, this is like the Aquacar, thats half car, and half boat. It doesn't do either one very well, but is great if you like curiosities. I can't imagine they sold very many of these.

                 Hungry Horse

[B Staley]

I never seen one great find. Might make a good turkey gun.....

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

she'll be my new grouse slayer! I have everything but the shot ordered for it.

Seeing how its for grouse, i shouldnt need a very hefty painful load, but i certainly will experiment.

[smokinbuck]

I've seen a few of these over the years and was not impressed by any that I saw. The biggest problem, when I tried one, was getting the wads and cards past the choke tube. Turned out easier to take it out to load, replace after loading. Rare, I don't think so. Pain in the butt, I'm convinced.
Mark

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

rare to find.

As for loading, yes, you are supposed to pull the choke tube first. Not a big problem IMO. It would be the same pain in the butt if you had a regular antique shotgun with a choked barrel and NO removable choke.

black powder shot gunning, its slow but rewarding I am sure.

[smokinbuck]

When shooting my originals,as well as contemporaries, eliminating the cushion wad has often given me better patterns. Folding the cards helps and the rod flattens them back out. This makes loading easy and faster.
Mark

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

when you say cushion wad, do you mean that big nasty thick wad?

[smokinbuck]

That's the one. I use 2 over powder cards and 2 over shot cards. Nothing else. I have a 12 ga that shoots 75-80% patterns on an 8 1/2 X 11 paper at 30 yards. 2 1/2 drams FFg and a matoching, by volume, amount of 7 1/2 shot.
Mark

2 drams of FF

[Daryl]

Good patterns, Mark. 

I would not be removing the choke to load the gun, then screwing it back in to shoot - etc, etc.  That just seems so silly to me.  Many of us have choked shotguns and load through the choke as normal practice. We've been doing that since Navy Arms marketed choked bore muzzleloading shotguns back in the 70's when there was no such thing as a screw-in choke. When the 'load' is seated on the powder with the use of a large button on the rod, the wads are formed to the bore once again - or do so when the gun is fired.  Really good patterns are the proof.

Now- much depends on the gun and charges, as well as how it is loaded with various available wads. When testing various loads in modern shotguns, I found shotguns to be as finicky or more so than most of handguns or rifles I've loaded for since 1968 when my handloading career started.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I shot it today for the first time. WOW is that awesome! I nailed a target at 30 yards which just peppered a 17" diameter target and filled the 3" bulls eye with 7 1/2 shot.

I only shot 50 grain charge and 1oz of 7 1/2 just to get used to it. Later when I finish the stock I can get down to business with a turkey load.

[Kermit]

I'm like Mark, and do not use fiber cushion wads. I just use the thin overshot cards: two over the powder, then the shot, then a single card over the shot. I was finding holes in the pattern that I believe we're caused by that hunk of fiber. After reading V. M. Starr and eliminating the cushion my patterns got way better.

[Daryl]

Normal for a 12 bore choked gun, would be 68gr. (2 1/2 drams) to 82gr.(3 drams) 2F and  up to 1 1/8oz. shot (492gr.).

4 drams, a modern heavy magnum-type load would be 109gr. and 1 1/4oz. at 546gr. shot. Some guys use loads like this for turkey.  Check your loads against the dram and ounce listings on modern shotshell boxes for whatever gauge you happen to be shooting.

Of course, there are those who shoot upwards of 85gr. 3F and 1 1/2 ounce (656gr.) shot in a 20 bore - choked or not. (656gr. is a BIG bullet from such a small bore with 85gr. 3f - just saying)

I use almost 2 1/2 drams (65gr.) of 2F in my choked 20 bore Flinter, with a 70gr. measure filled with shot. Mine throws 1 ounce, 437.5gr. shot. Patterns are nicely even and give a good killing pattern on clays.

Guns without chokes benefit from lightening the wad column as the guys have indicated above. Guns with chokes usually don't have the do-nut pattern problems and thus pattern better than non-choked guns ever did, without concentrators that is. That is why choked guns proliferated on the scene once the benefits of choking technology was discovered and the manufacturing techniques became known - there was a learning curve here too.

[old george]

Are you applying lube to one of the OP cards?

geo.

[smokinbuck]

I normally do not lube either the Op or OS cards, use them dry. The other thing that has not been mentioned, or I overlooked it, is the fact that when you replace the choke tube after loading, you are working at the muzzle of a loaded gun. Capped or not, this is not a good practice to get into, it is a loaded gun. Wonder how the NMLRA would feel about it at Friendship?
Mark

[gunmaker]

20 paces load has to pierce both sides of a tin-not aluminum can to kill bunnies.....Tom (no cushion wads)

[Daryl]

In the choked 20 bore, I use Track's lubed fibre wads.

[moleeyes36]

In the chokes 20 bore, I use Track's lubed fibre wads.

My experience with using whole fiber wads, particularly the pre-lubed ones, was that they often caused a hole in the center of the pattern.  When I started using a half thickness of fiber wad, I quit getting holes in the center of the pattern.  Just my experience.

Mole Eyes