Author Topic: .36 caliber rifle - George Dancer - Ohio (Read 11212 times)

bones92 · « **on:** December 13, 2014, 06:43:57 AM »

I recently acquired an original long rifle. It's in fairly rough shape, but I can make out a name on the barrel that appears to read "George Dancer" (I thought it was Lancer, at first).

It has a "Warranted" lock, which I understand is likely English make.

According to a simple Google search, "George Dancer" was listed in an Industrial Census of 1850 as a resident of Richland County, Ohio.

The stock is broken into two pieces in the forearm. I think it could be repaired. It wouldn't be pretty, but it's not as though it is an otherwise pristine rifle.

I pulled a very old lead ball and paper (?) patch out of the bore, and there seems to be old, hardened powder under those. The ball measures around .353-354"

I would appreciate any insight or commentary.

GrampaJack · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2014, 03:29:01 AM »

http://www.aolrc.org/

Bones, George Dancer (1799-?) did indeed work in Richland County Ohio. In Vol. IV of "Ohio Gunsmiths and Allied Tradesman" there is information on George and other members of the family. There is also a picture of one of his guns. The gun pictured is not real fancy but, to my eyes, it has great lines. George is on my list of guns to look for, not that they are that special, I just think the name is cool. I included a link to the Ohio Longrifle Collectors web page. Best Regards, Jack PS Welcome to the forum.

bones92 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2014, 05:08:36 AM »

Jack,

Thank you for the welcome. I'm not sure if photos can be uploaded to this forum, but I posted some on the blackpowder forum at Gunboards: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?381494-Original-percussion-rifle-George-Dancer-of-Ohio-36-cal

I'm slowly cleaning out the powder from the last charge it held, having pulled the ball and paper. Heaven only knows how long this rifle has sat loaded. It occurred to me that it may have been a quite long time...

However, I'm a bit dubious concerning my abilities to properly fix this. Probably not a hard task for someone with the right tools and know-how, but that certainly is not me.

Gaeckle · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2014, 06:23:21 AM »

Look up or Google the Log Cabin Shop in Lodi, Ohio.....call them and ask for Tom. He can repair that to such a degree that to would be hard pressed to see the repair at all. From the pictures it looks as though the triggergaurd has been brutilized and has been bent out of shape. That may be able to be returned to what should be the original shape.

These old babies are fun to work on.....working on a George Wareham myself, broken stock in the same place as yours and a large chunk of wood missing....pulled the barrel so far, stabilized a few cracks here and there and started to clean off the old slopped on shelac that somebody put on there years ago.

bones92 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2014, 01:57:52 PM »

I am debating what to do with it. Part of me wants to try to restore it carefully... The other part says "sell it to someone who knows what they're doing - you have enough projects".

I'm curious to see if I can get the bore cleaned up. Does anyone have suggestions for getting old, compacyed powder out of the barrel? I sprayed some Kroil down thinking it will soften everything up. I'm using a bullet puller on a cleaning rod to break it up.

It occurred to me that I might have tried cleaning the nipple and firing a cap to see if the main charge would still go off. I have no idea how long it has been loaded.... Maybe 100 years or more?

GrampaJack · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2014, 03:18:30 PM »

As far as the charge goes there have been lots of discussions on the forum about this. The one common thought is to always assume the charge can still go BANG! Since you have the ball out and at least some of the powder a good part of the danger is probably gone. You probably know this but, the first thing I would do is drop a rod down the bore and mark it at the muzzle. Pull it out and hold next to barrel with the mark even with the muzzle. The difference between the end of the rod and the actual back end of the barrel will tell you how much material is down there. I generally pour some hot water in, let it sit for a short period, then use my ram rod drill to dig around. I usually turn it by hand so as to not bottom out and ruin the drill. An alternative is a scraper that can be attached to a cleaning rod. Looks like a screw driver blade. This can be sharpened and will clean down to the breech plug. Working with a couple inches of water down there pretty much eliminates any nasty surprises. As far as the repair goes, Gaeckle is right, Tom does good work. I was just there yesterday talking to him about an old double I'm working on. I can't tell from the pictures but if the wood is all original repairing a break out there is not difficult. If the part that needs to be reattached is new wood it's more difficult to make it look right. If you decide to sell it I believe the rules say you need to list it in the classified section or by email. Best Regards, Jack PS Look under tutorials for instructions on posting pictures. It's not difficult. If I can do it anyone can.

bones92 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2014, 12:25:27 AM »

Jack

It is all original wood, and quite nice too. Perhaps a maple? I have been looking at the contour and I really admire the quality of the original shaping. The forearm has a nice feel, being shaped almost like the V-hull of a boat. And the buttstock, while a bit short, is very nicely shaped.

The forearm and stock fit together nicely. I was wondering if a shhet of brass conformed to the bottom of the barrel, applied to a layer of acraglas, would make a strong repair.

Would anyone care to see more photos of the stock and areas needing repair? I would be interested in hearing ideas.

Also, did this stock have a buttplate originally?

JTR · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2014, 01:02:03 AM »

So does the butt have any screw holes that could have held the plate?
John

bones92 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2014, 04:26:36 AM »

No screws or signs there ever was any. The finish on the flat of the butt is comparable to the rest of the stock, as well.

The only odd thing is that there is a flat-head screw in the toe, up about 1 inch from the tip. It is flush with the wood, standard slotted head. Probably about 3/8" diameter head.

smokinbuck · « **Reply #9 on:** December 16, 2014, 06:32:11 PM »

Bones,
Before you do anything to the rifle, try to post some pictures. If not that, I would like to see what you are up against. Yes, a wear plate on the underside of the forearm would help strengthen the stock but may not be needed and may not he appropriate. Tom can do a very good job for you as can a number of other fellows. Let us see what you have.
Mark

bones92 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2014, 04:29:54 AM »

Mark,

I don't seem to have the feature enabled to permit me to upload photos. There are photos in the link I posted above, though, repeated here:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?381494-Original-percussion-rifle-George-Dancer-of-Ohio-36-cal

smokinbuck · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2014, 02:34:18 AM »

Bones,
I went to your picture site but couldn't sign in and enlarge the pics. If you send them to me I'd be glad to take a look.
Mark

GrampaJack · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2014, 08:31:55 PM »

Bones, I came down with the flu and have been off line this week. I would also like to see pictures when you get the chance. Thanks, Jack

bones92 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2014, 08:43:47 PM »

Can I request the ability to post photos from a moderator?

GrampaJack · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2014, 02:01:38 AM »

Bones, I think as soon as you register and are accepted (which it seems you are) you can post pictures. If you have not already done so go to the main menu and look under miscellaneous tutorials. The first one is how to post pictures. I use photo bucket and it's really easy. If you are blocked from posting pictures Dennis Glazener will help you out. You can pick up his contact information from the member list or any post. He will probably see this anyway - Dennis sees EVERYTHING. Jack

Majorjoel · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2014, 01:24:53 PM »

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=458853283

bones92 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2014, 02:05:04 PM »

Yes, the link above is it. I reached the conclusion that I probably don't have the resources to restore this but there is likely someone else who can.

I really gave no idea what its worth so I made a best guess. Am I out of the ballpark?

bones92 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2014, 05:11:42 PM »

If I list this on the ALR trader board what is a reasonable price to put on it?

WadePatton · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2014, 05:57:55 PM »

Quote from: bones92 on December 17, 2014, 04:29:54 AM

Mark,

I don't seem to have the feature enabled to permit me to upload photos. There are photos in the link I posted above, though, repeated here:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?381494-Original-percussion-rifle-George-Dancer-of-Ohio-36-cal

NO ONE has permission to upload photos here. PHOTOS must be linked in from other sites. It matters not what or where the other site is. Most folks use photo-hosting servers like imgur or photobucket. Sometimes i use facebook.

The above links do me no good as i'm not a member at that site and cannot view the images full-sized.

IF you cannot work out how to post the photos here, email them to me and I'll put them up at Imgur and link them over to here. If you already have them on a server, look for the "share" links there. That's what you post here. Use the "preview post" button to verify your work.

I am not "in the market" but would hope for the best restoration of this original gun. And feel that exposure here will surely help that happen.

Yes, they're all loaded until you unload them.

bones92 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2014, 08:35:12 PM »

I believe the link above posted by majorjoel should work.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #20 on:** December 22, 2014, 09:47:07 PM »

Quote

I believe the link above posted by majorjoel should work.

Its fine in this topic but in the For Sale section the ALR rules are as shown below:

Quote

In order to post free "For Sale or Trade" items you must have been an ALR Member for at least 30 days. "Want to Buy" ads can be posted by new member without the 30 day wait. All items that are listed here must comply with ALR rules as written in "ALR Rules and Policies" shown here : http://americanlongrifles.org/american-longrifles-privacy-policy-2.htm?action=recent NO CARTRIDGE GUNS ARE ALLOWED

All ads, including trades, must have prices included in the ad. For items listed for trade your estimate of its value should be posted.

You may not use this forum to direct folks to your online Ebay, Gunbroker or similiar website but you may list the same items here as a stand alone ad from which ALR members may purchase the item. Links are allowed to photos of the item/s you have for sale here on ALR i.e. Photbucket, Flicker, personal website etc.

ALR members buy and sell at their own risk, ALR does not assume any liability for items sold or purchased through this free service to ALR members.

Dennis

bones92 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:16:23 AM »

Thanks, Dennis. I intend to be a regular member here, so I do not want to run afoul of the rules of the road for this forum.

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Author Topic: .36 caliber rifle - George Dancer - Ohio (Read 11212 times)