Author Topic: very interesting southern rifle (Read 17300 times)

cshirsch · « **on:** December 15, 2014, 11:40:56 PM »

I just acquired an original southern rifle and it is quickly turning into one of my collection favorites. I am looking for some advanced southern rifle collectors so I can share this with them. I feel that I might be able to narrow down where it was made and maybe even the builder. There is a silver plate inletted into the barrel that reads, 'Win Miller The Shooter of Tenn 1857'. Unfortunately there is some work that needs to be done to the lock area since someone did a poor job of gun smithing. I will fix that. Anyway, let me know what you think and if you can lead me to an advanced southern rifle collector or two.

Chris

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2014, 11:57:06 PM »

This is a very interesting rifle. I suppose, that since it is a back action lock, it has done what these locks do best, break the lock mortise. This is usually either because the front of the lock doesn't contact the snail, or lock bolt has been left loose, or broke, causing the lock to buck up, and destroy the mortise. They also are pretty good at letting their incredibly long mainspring get loose, and blow out the lock mortise.
I would love to see more of this gun, It has very interesting furniture, and lines.

Hungry Horse

cshirsch · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2014, 12:08:50 AM »

Unfortunately the lock was replaced and a lot of the wood around the lock was replaced also. I have determined the size of the original lock and I have a few Golcher locks that will work fine (thank God I saved all those old back action locks!). I am searching all of my maple for the right piece of wood to use. The barrel was originally 47 1/4" long but was shortened 1 1/4" at the breech during it's time of use. The corrosion at the breech now is quite heavy so this rifle saw a lot of use. I'm sure the original lock was corroded also and I'm sure the wood was in bad shape. Whoever tried to 'fix' it really did a horrendously bad job. I will make it well again. :-) I will post lots of photos when the work is done. Since I am quite backlogged with work in the shop, it may not be soon.

Chris

cshirsch · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2014, 12:59:17 AM »

Also the parts were blued by someone. I am removing that now.

WadePatton · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2014, 01:13:13 AM »

Fantastic wood that is--for any gun. Please let us see more.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2014, 01:48:04 AM »

I'm no expert on southern rifles but it looks like a North Carolina product to me. Nice looking gun for a capper.

PPatch · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2014, 03:06:01 AM »

Nice rifle butt, I'm sure the gun has other nice features too - sure wish I could see them.

A man would have to be half out of his gourd to dream up inletting a sawtoothed edged patchbox like that; in fact he was probably driven off his gourd just making it.

dave

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #7 on:** December 16, 2014, 03:16:20 AM »

I wonder how many gunstocks the rest of that tree made. Wish a had a few planks of that. Is the forestock that good too?

cshirsch · « **Reply #8 on:** December 16, 2014, 03:27:06 AM »

Yes, the wood is that way all the way to the muzzle. I will post some more photos as I work on the gun. The lock area is pretty bad. Luckily I have a piece of maple that will match. I have removed most of the bluing and the aging will take some time to get right.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #9 on:** December 16, 2014, 05:23:06 PM »

Chris, I find your southern rifle most interesting! Very unique to say the least. The butt plate extension which combines the effects of a comb inlay (without having one) and the serrated designed patchbox surround that keeps the banana form and leads to southern attributes. The rifle really stands out and hopefully someone here will be able to enlighten us all as to the who, when, and where it came from. I also look forward to seeing more pictures of this piece! Thank you for showing off the beginnings of a good mystery........Joel

gibster · « **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2014, 11:27:57 PM »

I would like to see more of this rifle. It looks like there is only one screw holding the box to the stock. It also looks like a one piece box not counting the lid. Are there any nails or pins that just aren't showing up in the picture?

cshirsch · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2014, 02:13:17 AM »

The 'frame' around the patchbox door is separate from the upper and it is pinned (nailed) on. Yes it has one screw holding the upper. I have begun stripping the blue and have found a piece of wood suitable for restoring the lock area. After I complete the work, I will be posting some good photos of the rifle. I am quite excited that another collector has sent me photos of another rifle that is surely made by the same person. I am waiting to hear from the person I bought it from in eastern Tennessee. They are going to check with the person they bought it from and hopefully come back with some history. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Chris

mr. no gold · « **Reply #12 on:** December 17, 2014, 03:19:22 AM »

Don't know if many are aware of this, but if I'm not wrong, Chris Hirsch is the gentleman who wrote a fine book on the Texas gunmakers and the gun trade in that area. He did a great job of describing what was going on regarding that aspect of Texas history. He is also a builder of fine guns and does high quality restoration on antiques, so when he has completed the necessities on this beautiful rifle, it will be even more exciting.
Dick

cshirsch · « **Reply #13 on:** December 17, 2014, 04:13:49 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Dick. I will do the absolute best that I can on the restoring this fine rifle.

Chris

blienemann · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2014, 06:19:47 AM »

Off topic, but Chris is a man of many talents, collects fine rifles, builds em too, plays a mean bluegrass guitar - Black Mtn Rag and all. Tumbling River Ranch, CO. Bob

E.vonAschwege · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2014, 07:49:20 AM »

Chris - Those photos are a tease! What a lovely and interesting rifle you've found. Whenever someone new arrives on the forum with a nice gun and says they're going to "restore it", I usually cringe write a kind note suggesting that they find a professional to do the work. I'm very pleased to hear these fine gentlemen speak so highly of your talents, I'm sure the rifle is in good hands and I eagerly await photos of the entire piece! Thank you for sharing.
Best,
-Eric

Bob Roller · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2014, 03:04:54 PM »

Quote from: blienemann on December 17, 2014, 06:19:47 AM

Off topic, but Chris is a man of many talents, collects fine rifles, builds em too, plays a mean bluegrass guitar - Black Mtn Rag and all. Tumbling River Ranch, CO. Bob

For all the bluegrassers on this list,here is a time appropriate song called
"Christmas back Home" by the Country Gentlemen.Type it in,click on it and
sit back and listen. This is about 50 years ago when John Duffey,Eddie Adcock ,
Charlie Waller and Tom Gray kept bluegrass music from becoming stale.

Bob Roller

cshirsch · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2014, 07:51:21 PM »

Thanks Eric. I will do my absolute best to bring the old boy back to where it should be. When I say restore, I do not mean anything more than bringing it back to the condition it was before someone messed it up.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #18 on:** December 18, 2014, 05:11:43 PM »

Hi Chris, I was just wondering if you would be so kind as to give us the details about your rifle's barrel? Length, approx. caliber, straight or swamped etc. It will slightly ease the pain of mystery for me until you get her fixed up! Much appreciated.......Joel

WadePatton · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2014, 08:47:22 PM »

Quote from: Majorjoel on December 18, 2014, 05:11:43 PM

Hi Chris, I was just wondering if you would be so kind as to give us the details about your rifle's barrel? Length, approx. caliber, straight or swamped etc. It will slightly ease the pain of mystery for me until you get her fixed up! Much appreciated.......Joel

YES please!

and mmm bluegrass. The olde fiddle tune Whiskey Before Breakfast is my challenge right now (on 6-string). Like to pretend i can play.

4th La. · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2014, 05:54:49 AM »

Chris, William Douglas or one of his associates !

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2014, 07:48:44 AM »

I would like to see more pictures and a close up of the patchbox showing what is inlet and what is on top of the wood.

Like Mike, I get a NC kind of feeling when I look at it.

Howard · « **Reply #22 on:** January 02, 2015, 01:10:22 AM »

Here is a rifle to compare it to. I turned it up 30 plus years ago here local. It is no doubt made by the same maker. Mine isn't signed but is small caliber. The family came from the Tenn. area . The patchbox release is located on the face of the buttplate.

WadePatton · « **Reply #23 on:** January 02, 2015, 01:34:59 AM »

Does look strikingly similar.

That fellow was long on returns eh? (and most other bits of furniture as well.) Wonder if he'd broken a stock or two or just didn't trust the natural integrity of wood. Or simply driven to be "different". Whatadang entry pipe.

Howard, would you care to share some more pics of that rifle? (another thread of course) Specifically I'd like to see the lock and muzzle and underside view of guard.

thanks

Sequatchie Rifle · « **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2015, 12:43:23 AM »

I have an interesting Longrifle attributed to Elbert Bible with the same "serrated" frame that's around you patchbox. Mine has it around the lock, sideplate and nose cap. I think Elbert Bible was from Cocke County. I'm out of the country right now so I don't have access to my notes and references.

News:

Author Topic: very interesting southern rifle (Read 17300 times)

4th La.