Adding strength to the wrist !

[Roger Fisher]

I know of some that drill a hole back in to the wrist and glue in a theaded rod (steel)
to add strength to said wrist.   Do you think this is a good practice or is it overkill.

Heavy wrists match heavy (big bore rifles) and skinny wrists match the small bores..

[Daryl]

You might have something there, Roger- especially with a properly proportioned .25 cal rifle.  Of course, I'm not afraid of recoil, just breaking the wrist when loading or carrying - or driving over it, ya know.

[roundball]

I know of some that drill a hold back in to the wrist and glue in a theaded rod (steel)
to add strength to said wrist.   Do you think this is a good practice or is it overkill.

Heavy wrists match heavy (big bore rifles) and skinny wrists match the small bores..

Are wrists breaking a common occurrance?

[northmn]

I asked a similar question a while back concerning cross grain in the wrist area.  Most claimed that the "reinforcements" may do more harm than good.  I broke a wrist in a slim rifle and it was a SOB to fix and still doesn't look right.  Consider the Hawken where the writst was pinched between a long tang and trigger bar.  I almost think that a modification of that design may be about as good as anything, such as a longer trigger plate and an appropriate inlay.  Don Getz gave me the advice that if it ain't broke don't fix it.

DP

[rich pierce]

I broke both my wrists at once when I was in my 20's.    I was glad I was married.  There were a lot of things I couln't do for myself.

I would only reinforce a gun wrist with bad grain runout and soft wood and a normally short, one screw tang.  Then the way to do it is to drill in from the breech back to the buttstock and use either a threaded steel rod or a hickory dowel glued in.

[Stophel]

I don't think long tangs and such do anything to strengthen the wrist....they just hold the parts together if they do break.

If a stock is going to break, it's probably going to break around the lock anyway, rather than the wrist.

[roundball]

If a stock is going to break, it's probably going to break around the lock anyway, rather than the wrist.

T/C's Hawken model had a chronic problem of developing a hairline crack running with the grain on the off-lock side...usually just above the lock bolt hole and forward to the edge of the barrel bed where a lot of wood had been hogged out for the face of the hooked tang.

T/C's solution to strengthen that whole area seems pretty sound...they replaced the front tang screw with a 1/4" through bolt that goes down through the stock wood, through a hole in the front of a redesigned trigger plate, and screw into a drilled & tapped seat in the front strong part of the trigger guard...eliminates flexing of that whole weak lock area ahead of the wrist where so much wood is removed

[northmn]

Stocks breaking in the wrist was very common and one sees pictures of originals with brass wrapped around the wrist for a repair.  Also one sees a few with a rawhide repair in that area.  Mine fell off of a poorly designed table at a shoot and took a bounce and broke.  I do agree that I think the Hawkens design probably just held them together.  Another point I want to make is that in looking at a lot of old shotguns, I believe walnut has a tendency to crack more than maple. To me the best preventative is to have the grain run more or less straight through the wrist.  If one considers tool handles or broom handles they can be made slim and yet take a lot of shock.  I feel one contributer to my rifles break was the DST and getting clearance for the workings.

DP

[keweenaw]

If you look at all those old guns with broken wrists, the grain flow, and crack, is almost always across the wrist.  One rarely sees broken wrists where the grain flow was along the wrist.  That's why it's so important to carefully pick out your blank.  The seller gets fewer blanks if he cuts them with the grain flow along the wrist line but has a much stronger product.  I've seen gorgeous blanks that I wouldn't even consider buying because of improper grain flow.  Wayne Dunlap and Freddie Harrison rarely have a blank for sale that doesn't have good grain flow, even when the blank is plain sawn. 

Someone once gave me a blank that was cut out with the grain flow across the wrist.  Darned blank broke through the wrist sitting in the corner - I almost couldn't believe it - as it was 2 3/4" thick.

Tom

[JCKelly]

George Schreyer (attributed) wrist fix.

[JCKelly]

A contemporary brass stock repair is shown on horstguns.com

http://www.horstguns.com/Johnstonadditionalphotos.html

Somewhat more elaborate than any old ones I have seen> I suppose that just means I haven't seen all that many, now, doesn't it?

[George F.]

That  Schreyer Rifle is typical of stock breaks. They start on the underside of the lower forestock around the trigger area and follow the grain into the top of the wrist to the comb area. ... Geo.

[Jerry V Lape]

Break on that horst gun is peculiar looking.  It appears to have broken well behind the wrist up through the comb which I have never seen before.  Perhaps that repair was done for artistic rather than structural reasons?  Or perhaps it was done to cover a butt stock graft - sometimes used on modern higher grade shotguns to correct particularly bad dimensions on the orginal.  The butt is cut off behind the wrist and a new block of wood spliced on there from which to shape a stock with desired dimensions.  (usually hide those grafts under the checkering pattern rear edge.) 

[B Shipman]

The very best thing you can do, as said above, is to pick stocks with good grain in the wrist and toe. Always do this first and then go for curl if you want it. You'll pay more for it.

[Leatherbelly]

Are wrists breaking a common occurrance?
[/quote]

 Only on them .58  Virginia rifles,RB! hahaha

[Red Owl]

Well I'm a newbie so I hope I did it correctly.  I found a heavy piece of maple that had sort of a slight curve to the grain and the thought occurred to me that this flow would run straight through the wrist area of the stock- so I bought the wood and laid out the pattern so that the grain ran straight from the lock down through the wrist- I hope that was correct.  This particular rifle is a plains rifle so I can leave the wrist a little heavy and it ought to still be okay.
   When you say "it breaks across the grain" please explain to a newbie. Thanks.
   Another issue, is a poorly inlet stock more prone to break?  In other words will the recoil of the barrel and tang bear against less wood and cause a break more easily?  So far I'm pretty happy with my inlet job. The barrel to wood fit is good and the breech plug face seems pretty good.  I've wondered if glass bedding the area would strengthen the area but the fit seems so good I'm pretty much against it plus I would far prefer a gun without any modern things such as glass bedding.
   The tang bolt: should the hole be such that the bolt fits tightly or, should the hole be oversized so the bolt connects the tang and trigger plate but does not contact or bear against any wood? Or does it make any difference?
   In the lock area, I'm planning to remove as little wood as possible in the interest of strength. I'm going to pin the trigger.  Does a higher trigger weaken the stock as the inlet is deeper?  Also most pre-carved stocks use a router, etc and I think excess wood is removed.  Am I over doing this?
   And...what about adding weight?  Some makers of shotguns add lead in hidden areas to the stock with the idea a heavy gun recoils less.  My barrel is 54 caliber and 15/16 so the recoil is pretty good.  I'm not sure where adding weight could be done- I was thinking some holes behind the butt plate.  Has anyone ever done such or am I again over doing things? I don't mind recoil- I want more recoil to help prevent a cracked wrist.
   I'm also thinking about a very thin metal plate on the wood in front of the lock so the area doesn't get charred.  Same thing on the wood beside the breech plug.
   In the interest of having as heavy a gun as possible I've optioned for a large buttplate- hence larger amount of wood/weight; and was thinking a heavier wrist, and a little larger cheek piece.
   I've made some guns from kits but it is a lot more fun to work from a blank.  I am learning an awful lot more.  In any event, any comments greatly appreciated. Thanks.