Butt plate and trigger guard questions

[ptk1126]

I have two questions regarding my current project, a Nathan Clause late-Lehigh style:

   1. Trigger Guard: I want to add a piece of brass to extend from the joint of the bow and front extension backwards to the edge
             of the trigger plate. The piece needs to be about 5/16" long. I plan to age the brass with ammonia. How should I join the
             two pieces so as to minimize the appearance of the joint when finished ? My metal working skills are very limited.

   2. Butt Plate: I always seem to have a problem properly aligning the top of the butt plate return with the barrel tang/wrist so
             that it has a pleasing flow. With a Roman nose Lehigh stock (from Fred Miller) it would appear even more difficult to achieve.
             Any tips for this process ??

All the best
Paul

[rich pierce]

Many times there is a gap of wood between the trigger plate and the front return.  This is OK.  Generally any joint will eventually show with patination. I've used some brass colored silver solder with some success.

Here is how I align the top return of the buttplate:  Create a small block of wood that exactly mimics the top return in height at the front and rear MINUS THE THICKNESS OF THE RETURN (rule for Lehigh).  Cut  and rasp your buttstock till the block sits level with the comb but not quite down deep enough to be flush with the comb.  Now that you've got it level, start real inletting.

[smshea]

 Im just curiuos....is it your goal to just not have the wood gap between the front of the inside of the bow and the front of the trigger plate? Or are you trying to mimic something you may have seen on a particular Clause rifle?
 What guard are you using and are you making your own trigger plate?

[ptk1126]

Rich - I am not quite sure I understand what you said, or what you meant by "rule for Lehigh" ? The pre-carve stock came from Fred
         Miller with the butt plate (Goehring #7, Peter Brong, Lancaster) already roughed in. I have not yet done any further inletting.
         Although a Lancaster, it is a close match for the one Clause used. Perhaps the following picture will help.




Scott - I am trying to closely reproduce the Nathan Clause rifle that the Frazier Museum allowed me to measure and photograph.
           I am using Allen Martin's boat tail trigger plate. I purchased the trigger guard at Friendship using photos and measurements
           to get one similar to Clause's. Many of the original rifles I have seen, and the Clause,  had the trigger guard and trigger plate
           abutting each other. Here is a picture of the guard.



I appreciate your help.
Paul

[rich pierce]

Many Lehighs have a buttplate with a very flat front return that is inlet into the top of the comb, and from the side you don't see the brass.  Looks like yours is a full-dome type so treat it conventionally.

[ptk1126]

Thanks Rich - Now I understand you were referring to the "sheath" style return. Clause did not use that feature.

All the best
Paul

[Acer Saccharum]

Thoughts on the #1 scenario:

Why not make a longer trigger plate, which could be easier than extending the guard?

Tom

[smshea]

 You beat me to it Acer! My question as well. Unless im missing something.

[JCKelly]

Mr. Getz says he ages with ammonia all the time, no problem. I presume he gets his aging done fairly quickly.

However ammonia is a classic way to crack any brass that has residual stresses in it. Ammonia means not only what you buy at the store, but also a decomposition product of horse, cat and mouse urine.

Brits learned this in India, called it "season cracking". During monsoon season they stored their .577 brass cartridges in horse barns. A no-no. Every half-century or so industrial guys learn, again, what mice can do.

Residual stresses exist in, for example, formed ramrod pipes, flat rolled brass or castings that have been bent a bit.
 
If you do use ammonia--which I would never do--keep the exposure short. Leave it in overnight or a few days & you get to make a new part. 

For those who disbelieve, put a  modern brass cartridge case, preferably used, in a bottle above just a little ammonia, let the fumes work. Leave it there a few days.

[ptk1126]

Acer - I considered making a new trigger plate but since it is already inletted and the single trigger correctly pinned, I thought it might be
          easier to add a short extension to the guard before installing it. This would also match the Clause guard which has an extension.

JC - I have used ammonia for aging brass on three rifles so far without a problem. I put a small amount in the bottom of a clear, sealed
       container and use wire to hang the brass near the top. I usually do this in the morning so I can look at it periodically until it
       has darkened to the extent I want. However, thanks for the tip as I was unaware of the potential problem.

All the best
Paul

[rich pierce]

I had a tricker guard crack after ammonia treatment and won't do it again.