It freakin happened again!

[B.Habermehl]

A customer came into my shop tonight with a gun I built 22 years ago. It had been neglected, and he was having trouble getting the lock to spark. I pulled the lock off the gun and dismantled and cleaned it and got it working. I saw the muzzle was rusty so I  got a cleaning rod and steel wool and went to work...... I push the rod down the barrel and find that I have suction when pulling it out. Wait a minute! I check the rod depth and find the barrel is loaded. What the h..... I get the ball puller and pull the load. I broke the most important rule of gun handling, I did not verify the barrel did not have a load in it before I did any thing. I got complacent and stupid. I hope this is a fortunate reminder to all of us to always drop the rod an verify the gun is unloaded first before anything else. BJH

[WadePatton]

Yeah, and what if customer had gotten a good spark...

They're all loaded until we unload them.   

[Mark Elliott]

Thanks for the reminder!  I should put a sign in the shop.

[flinchrocket]

  There is no excuse for anyone to bring a loaded firearm in for repairs!
   I'd put the sign on the outside. I was accidently shot when I was fourteen
   years old. I don't hesitate to ask someone if a gun is loaded.

[Turtle]

 A friend brought an old original musket in for me to do some work on. I found it loaded. He later told me they had never tried to fire it and it hung over his grandparents mantle an he and his brother used to put caps on the nipple and play cowboys and Indians!!
                                        Turtle

[Mike New]

I'm still cringing over the "neglected" part. I often catch myself in the hurry and get the job mode when I should  check the obvious stuff first. Be safe. M. New

[jerrywh]

 This happened to me about three or four times. 

[Levy]

It's not enough to just check with the ramrod for a loaded barrel.  You also have to think about what is in front of you.  Does the gun have a patent or hook-breech?  If it does, then the face of the breech plug is likely hollowed out and may contain gunpowder.  I made that mistake once.  A gentleman that I met in the woods hunting told me about cleaning out a load of buckshot from an Enfield musket.  He cleaned it out until he could blow air through the barrel and out the nipple.  thinking it was unloaded, he heated it up to remove the breech plug and it went off.  His cleaning had only taken out the center of the load leaving a donut of viable gunpowder at the breech.  Check and then think about it some more.

James Levy

[B. Hey]

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Great reminder for all. Take care ... Bill

[coutios]

   This is the exact reason I scratch my head why anyone would want to bring a loaded front loader home after a day in the field..... Just my personal thoughts

Dave

[David R. Pennington]

People will often ask when I am doing demonstrations, "Is that gun loaded?" I always respond that every gun is always loaded. I am then able to give a brief discussion of gun safety and point out that safe gun handling requires us to always treat every gun as loaded. After a lifetime of training by my father to "never point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill", the  most difficult thing for me to do when I started reenacting was to participate in battles firing blank charges in the direction of real people.

[WadePatton]

  There is no excuse for anyone to bring a loaded ...I don't hesitate to ask someone if a gun is loaded.

Asking is not relevant.  One must check.  People often don't know and "assume" and that's why they're all loaded until the moment I decide it's unloaded. 

If i'm told it's unloaded that's great.  I'll verify.

Mine stays loaded during hunting season. It's a gun.

[longcruise]

There is a modern oriented gun store near me that takes consignments.  I occasionally stop in to see what deals may await.  Couple months ago I was checking out a used ml and found it to be loaded!!!  When I presented it to the counter help the didn't believe it till the took it to the back room for a check out.

[trentOH]

A number of years ago at a gun show I found a ML pistol which was loaded. I pointed it out to the seller, who insisted it wasn't loaded, it just must have something stuck in the barrel.

Yeah, like a charge of powder and a ball!

[Dave R]

A couple of years ago a friend brought a muzzleloading rifle in my office for me to look at so I asked him " IS IT LOADED? " He proudly announced " NO IT IS NOT LOADED I BOUGHT IT FROM A GUN SHOP" Me hearing about lots of discharges with empty guns during the years I pulled the ramrod and it went a couple of inches past the patent breach threads!! He was flabbergasted!!

[Bob Roller]

A number of years ago at a gun show I found a ML pistol which was loaded. I pointed it out to the seller, who insisted it wasn't loaded, it just must have something stuck in the barrel.

Yeah, like a charge of powder and a ball!

For years there was a percussion revolver on display in the Huntington Museum of Art's
gun collection that had all 6 chambers charged and ready to cap.I think it was a Pettingill
or some other obscure make.After 30 or more years,they finally had someone unload it.
Bob Roller

[Sweeney]

This topic revived a lingering question for me. Though I have been hunting with patched ball for thirty years I just switched to a flinter in the last two seasons. How difficult/easy is it for a flintlock to ignite the charge with no primer powder in the pan?

[WadePatton]

This topic revived a lingering question for me. Though I have been hunting with patched ball for thirty years I just switched to a flinter in the last two seasons. How difficult/easy is it for a flintlock to ignite the charge with no primer powder in the pan?

Welcome to the forum Sweeney

the "degree of difficulty" might be high, but it is possible and has likely happened, therefore I try to avoid situations where it IS possible. 

I keep my vent blocked at all times when there isn't powder in the pan.  That works amoungst us in the know.  We aren't generally the problem.  It's those know-nothings or know-it-alls handling estate guns or such that often guess wrong and endanger everyone around them.

No guessing.  I'm going to make a label for my gun safe that says: All Guns Always Loaded All the Time, in order to put others on official notice. 

Some aren't actually loaded, but which ones are they?

The only thing wrong with a loaded gun is not treating it as such. 

[Majorjoel]

I remember someone conducted a test here some years back and IIRC they got ignition about one in 10 strikes with an empty pan. I am sure the size of your touch hole, powder grain size, along with other factors will make this number go up or down. It is with out a doubt to ALWAYS practice safe gun handling at all times!  I open the frizzon and sweep out the prime when I am through with a hunt. I then gently lower the hammer cock leaving the frizzon open.  When it comes to finding old rifles that have been left loaded for who knows how long, I have run across more than I can remember. All to common with muzzle loaders.  About a year ago a fellow brought a double English shot gun into my shop for stock repairs. The first thing I did was check both barrels for loads and found both were. When I told the owner that I would unload it, he stopped me and told me that it must have been loaded by his G Grandfather. He wanted it to stay that way for "the history".  I explained that that history could later become "the tragedy" but was unable to do anything about it. I refused to work on his gun.

[oakridge]

I have an antique pistol that I've owned for 33 years. I bought it as a collector's item and never intend to shoot it. Well, out of curiosity, I recently ran a rod down the barrel just to check, and there's about an inch of "something" down in there. I think it's loaded, but I don't know how to get it out, so I may just leave it alone.

[WadePatton]

I have an antique pistol that I've owned for 33 years. I bought it as a collector's item and never intend to shoot it. Well, out of curiosity, I recently ran a rod down the barrel just to check, and there's about an inch of "something" down in there. I think it's loaded, but I don't know how to get it out, so I may just leave it alone.

classic!  we talk about it and it's "in the house!".

I would push some oil into the flash hole, pick, oil more for a day or three.  Then I'd put a good hefty dose of penetrating oil down the bore.  Leave it for a week or so.  By that time the powder should be damped, and I'd start on the extrication-like a dry ball which we has discusted many times.   

But it's your gun, and now you know that it's loaded.

[JTR]

I have an antique pistol that I've owned for 33 years. I bought it as a collector's item and never intend to shoot it. Well, out of curiosity, I recently ran a rod down the barrel just to check, and there's about an inch of "something" down in there. I think it's loaded, but I don't know how to get it out, so I may just leave it alone.

But it's your gun, and now you know that it's loaded.

Well, no, he doesn't know it's loaded, he knows there's something down the barrel.

I've unloaded more than a few antique guns, and all but one were loaded with mud, dirt, wasp nests, wadded up paper, and a marble. Certainly treat the pistol as loaded, and if you get an actual load of powder and ball out of it, post a picture so we all can see what an old load looks like!

John

[WadePatton]

yeah, it's loaded with something.   Could very well be viable powder and projectile, that's how i'm going to treat it until proven otherwise.

the danger begins in assuming that it's anything else.

[klb67]

This topic revived a lingering question for me. Though I have been hunting with patched ball for thirty years I just switched to a flinter in the last two seasons. How difficult/easy is it for a flintlock to ignite the charge with no primer powder in the pan?

I now have a custom Lancaster .50,  but I started with a T/C Renegade .50. One morning at the back of my jeep at o dark thrity, I loaded the gun, then remembered I had messed with the flint the day before and did not check to see I was still getting good spark before loading.  I decided to check it and was aware that the gun could go off.  So I pointed it in a safe direction towards the ground, cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger.  No pan charge, but it went off very quickly.  Unfortunately I hadn't informed my father in law what I was doing, and he was at his car nearby.  I'm sure he thought I'd shot myself.  So yes, it will go off even without a pan charge, so long as there's enough spark there to get in the touch hole.

[Mick C]

WHOA!  And you were fiddling with and dry firing the lock before you started with the barrel too.  You are one very blessed guy.  Glad it all worked out okay.....Mick C