priming flasks

[Hungry Horse]

 I was cleaning out a bunch of old muzzleloader magazines, and notice something that I have some concerns about. The majority of the examples I saw were in article written by Mike Nesbitt. And, maybe this is an Northwest thing, but I notice more than a couple of his "Loggerskinners" with a priming flask used as centerpiece on a necklace. Most have the nozzle upright, and right at the right spot to ignite, if a spark should stray that direction. This looks a lot like a hand grenade necklace to me. I heard about an accident with a flask of this type years ago. I just wonder how common these are, and have there been other accidents?

                      Hungry Horse

[WadePatton]

Another reason i prime from main powder supply.  One less thing.

[EC121]

I used to wear mine around my neck for convenience when shooting matches.  Then a friend had one blow up.  I don't remember if it was the primer or main horn.  Now I put the primer in my bag.  Just as convenient but out of the way.

[Maven]

Roger Fisher described an explosion with a neck-worn priming flask in "Muzzle Blasts" several years ago.  Fortunately, the shooter wasn't badly injured.

[Natureboy]

  I keep my priming flask in my belt bag.  It's easy to get at.  My concern is that they aren't really period correct, but
with the "new" 4F priming powder, they are really handy.  If I used 3F in the barrel, I would probably prime from my
horn.  2F is much too slow for priming--Pletch's wonderful slow-mo video shows that.  Some folks use a second, smaller horn for priming powder, but there is little evidence that they were used "back in the day," either.  Has anyone using priming flasks had problems with the judges at the stricter rondies?

[Tony N]

When target shooting I wear mine around my neck, nozzle down. Have for years. May have to rethink this. While hunting the primer stays in the bag.

~Tony

[Standing Bear]

When target shooting I wear mine around my neck, nozzle down. Have for years. May have to rethink this. While hunting the primer stays in the bag.

~Tony

I do the same, Tony. Have thought about it several times an feel comfortable. However I wear horn and bag on my right (shootin) side so the horn turned up is a concern. Got in a habit of wearing it a little behind my arm and over my hip - kinda like a 1911 in my belt.  Seems to hang up less too.
Tc

[Frizzen]

I prime, then put it back in my pocket. Wouldn't even think of firing a shot unless that little
flask was IN my pocket. I have heard of too many going off. Happend at our club once 40
years ago. Hanging around your neck!!! OMG 

[Hungry Horse]

 I'm pretty much with Wade on this one, in that I usually don't use 4F for priming. Out here on the West Coast, the 4F turns to mud except on the driest of days. The little push spout priming valves, everybody uses, quite often have a ball of damp powder on the end, that is just ideal for holding a spark just long enough to set off the whole enchilada. When hunting I use a little copper pistol flask, that I keep in my pocket.

                Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

Most of us use a small sized horn for prime. If I was hunting with a flinter (my .45) that used 3F, I'd prime with the main horn.  If I was shooting 2F in it, I'd carry the 4F horn in a breast pocket.

[Kermit]

I'm a rightie and have taken to left side horns. Priming horns and chargers are on a cord and ride inside the pouch. I never leave powder in the main or priming horn when returning home. All powder stored away safely in the containers they were shipped in.

I used to see a lot of practices of questionable safety, especially among western neo-mountainman folk. Seems less these days, but fools still live among us.

[hanshi]

Wearing a priming flask around one's neck was news to me; never though anyone would do that.  I always carry mine in my bag and keep a special eye on anything lying on the bench.  Live and learn.

[davec2]

A while back Dennis Glazener sent me a PM about a friend who had accidentally blown off part of his hand with a primer (much like the one I had made out of a .50 cal case) when it caught a spark.  I thanked Dennis for the heads up and told him I was working on a primer that had a "blow out" safety feature.  Well, here it is.  It uses a modified plunger tube on the business end, but the rear end of the reservoir tube is not closed with metal.  The end is plugged with a thick leather disk sealed and water proofed with a drop of varnish.  It only takes a few psi to blow out the leather disk, so, if this one were to catch a spark, you might get burned, but the tube will not explode and there won't be any shrapnel.  (You could do the same thing with a little cork in a plain tube.)

Perhaps a little overkill, but then I had some time, some brass, an idea....and I like to keep all my digits in place....and I carry it in my pocket when not in use.

[smokinbuck]

Dave,
Another good idea very well executed. Are you going to make these available?
Mark

[Pete G.]

I never have figured out the best place to carry these things. I used to put it in my bag in a separate pocket in the pouch, nozzle down for safety, but any leaks or jostling results in prime in the bottom of the pouch. This obviously will not do, so I swapped to a nozzle up; the idea being it is well covered by the flap on the pouch.

I have tried the prime from the horn thing and almost always end up with too much, so much that some of the grains on the top mating surface of the pan keep the pan cover from fully seating. This defeats the purpose of fitting the mating surfaces tightly enough that you cannot see any light shining through.

Even after all of this, it still beats trying to fumble a tiny cap onto a recessed nipple.

[Mad Monk]

This thing about priming flasks and accidental ignition of the contents was looked at back in the mid-1980s.  There were several flintlock deer season accidents here in PA where shooters were seriously injured when the contents of brass flask ignited.  At the time Chuck Dixon was selling small plastic flip spout bottles of 4f for lock prime in flintlocks.  I was asked to look at the plastic bottles relative to any accidental ignition and resulting explosion.
We had one serious accident here near Reading.  A guy out with a flintlock sat down for a break and had a smoke.  He sat the large brass flask of main charge powder on the ground next to him.  Spout up.  When he flicked ashes off the cigarette the flask exploded.  Blew away part of his right hand and right leg.

When you use a powder horn or valved powder flask you get a coating in the spout and in the valve.  At first I thought this was nothing more than graphite off the powder grains.  But then I found that the film sometimes contained actual powder dust.  So an ignition of the powder dust build up around the spout could act as a fuse into the contents of the powder container.

The end result of all of that work was that it is a good idea to periodically clean the spouts and valves.  No powder film means no fuse effect into the container.

Mad Monk

[WadePatton]

This thing about priming flasks and accidental ignition of the contents was looked at back in the mid-1980s...  But then I found that the film sometimes contained actual powder dust.  So an ignition of the powder dust build up around the spout could act as a fuse into the contents of the powder container.

The end result of all of that work was that it is a good idea to periodically clean the spouts and valves.  No powder film means no fuse effect into the container.

Mad Monk

While i'm not the certified expert MM is, I did quickly associate accidental ignition of BP to the dust/powder of BP and not the granules.  Just like corn/bean/wheat dust is what explodes grain bins-with purely organic dust and a simple spark.  

Most recently http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/14/explosion-at-nestle-plant/15648861/

So every time I refill my brass canister, I wipe it clean of residue to help minimize this dust/powder.  I'll now give the spout a little extra cleaning too.  I don't use FFFF for anything these days either. 

Ask the buck in the avatar if FF is "fast enough" for prime.   

[RonC]

When I bought my first flintlock, it came with a primer flask made by stitching 2 pieces of hardened leather together, with a brass, spring-loaded fitting on the end.
Do you think that such a primer would serve the purpose of reducing the chance of an explosion that may occur in brass primer units?
Ron

[okieboy]

 Nice intelligent craftsmanship Dave.

[Jerry V Lape]

I like your blowout plug design Dave.  Have you thought about how to make a positive and quick lock on the plunger so that end is secure?  Maybe a twist or spring loaded cross pin.    Several commenting here have noted the same thing I have observed which is that plunger valve tends to open bumping around in the bag or where ever  it is carried.  As for carrying the primer horn, I like mine in the shooting bag with the leather flap over it.  I carry on the right side and push the bag behind my hip most of the time as well so the supply horn and primer are as shielded as I can make them from the lock.