First post & question about duplicating a capbox

[ShutEyeHunter]

My first post on the site  

No doubt I could find what I need with the search function, but wanted to introduce myself and my project.

I'm building a shootable copy of the family rifle.  Circa 1835 Western Pennsylvania.  Local gunsmith; Abe Williams.  36 ish caliber. Similar in style to a Caleb Vincent Ohio rifle except with a full stock.

Capbox is the major feature on the rifle, so I want to match it as close as possible.

The TOW round lid plains capbox is close:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/813/2/PB-MA-12-B

Would need to solder on a couple of brass "ears" to match the five screw mounting of the original.  There's enough metal on the "tang" to file a good copy of the original pattern.

Only problem is that it would be about 10% too small overall.  That will drive me nuts till the end of my days...

So question...

Whats the best way to build one from scratch? 

1) sand cast one from the original
2) saw one out of brass sheet (1/16 or up to 1/8 ?).

1) is a lot of work,

and I'm not sure how 2) would look. 

Castings always seem to have a "richer" look than sheet (?) but maybe that's me.  Maybe going up to 1/8" thickness would help?

If I do sheet, the inside of the lid wouldn't have that nice rough look from a casting.

Any suggestions for a #3 option or hints/links for 1 or 2?

[elk killer]

contact Ryan, at Muzzleloaders builders supply
he can either make one close to what your seeking
or he might know of one

[moleeyes36]

Muzzleloaders Builder's Supply is a good suggestion.  If you aren't familiar with them, they're good people to deal with and super helpful.  And no, other than being a very satisfied frequent customer, I have no connection with the company.
 
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/

Mole Eyes

 

[RichG]

dittos on MLBS. he should be able to fabricate whatever you need.

[ShutEyeHunter]

Great. Thanks for the lead. Havent built a rifle in the last 20 years or so--nice to lnow about the go-to guys!

[galamb]

Yes and MBS also carry (blank) patchboxes in a couple of different sizes so that you can fabricate your own if you are so inclined.

I have gone that route with the last couple I have done - getting better - it's fun and frustrating all at the same time.

The (kits) are inexpensive enough that you can pick up a pair, just in case the first is simply a trial run/learning experience 

[Dave B]

The best way to get what you need is to make up a pattern of what you want to give to the foundry to use for you project. Its important when sand casting that you make your pattern  larger than the final piece. The brass will shrink about 2% as it cools so if you try to use the existing cap box as a pattern it will be smaller than the pattern when cooled down. I sand cast once at a Gunmakers fair a small router plane body. Mine was made from one of the earlier castings made that day. I was surprised at how much smaller it was than the original that was used to produce the pattern that I use to cast mine. I am sure the folks you've been recommended to will get you where you need to go.

[Dphariss]

Make one from 3/32 or 1/8" sheet depending on the original parts thickness. I think Alcobra Metals in Spokane can cut pieces or maybe sell cuttoffs if you need a sheet larger than you can easily find. You want Cartridge Brass. It is they right color.
Do a pencil rubbing of the original then stick this to the sheet brass with double stick tape. Saw it out. Then saw out the opening. Now saw out a lid that  is slightly over sized to allow fitting. Finalize the shape and fit the lid.  Silver solder on the pieces needed to allow a hinge to be made to match the original. Much easier than casting and it will look fine. Calculating the  shrink for a part to get an exact size may be difficult.
Or contact Ryan at MLBS he can likely help.
You can get brass colored silver solder from Rio Grande
http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Brass-Wire-Solder-20-Ga/132201?Pos=25
This will allow invisible joints if done right.
Dan

[ShutEyeHunter]

Ah, the sheet cartridge brass may just do it.  I dint think Ill have any trouble sawing one out (famous last words).  EZ enuf to try & cheap enuf to start over if it doesn't look right.  Will try casting as plan B.

I realized that there are a ton of castings of just the door/lid on the web.  Worse comes to worse I can probably solder sheet on top of a thinned casting to match the inside of the lid if the casting isn't a good color match.

Going to go slow on this project--Ill get the capbox done first and move on

Going to get in touch with Ryan & see what he recommends for the wood and other parts.  Thanks for the help!

[gunmaker]

How bout some pics of the family rifle, you have it ?

[John Archer]

Shuteye...you can probably approximate a cast finish on the inside of the lid by 'pounding' (a scientific blacksmith's term) a piece of rough cast brass or steel into the annealed sheet brass until you get the effect you want.

Best,
John.

[ShutEyeHunter]

Thanks, hadnt thouht of pounding it.

Ill post some rifle and build pix as soon as I figure out how. Did what I usually do with photobucket but couldnt get them to show up.  Prolly a how to in the FAQ

Thanks to all for your interest and help!

[JCKelly]

Although sawing a capbox out of flat stock can be tedious, I personally  think that dealing with a foundry for a one-off part would be no joy either.

Another source for brass is www.onlinemetals.com  I like them, probably because I've dealt with them.
You can get a 12x12" square of 1/8" C260 (cartridge brass) for about $80 

Cheaper to go with flat bar, `1/8 x 4 x 12" of C360 half-hard (leaded brass) for about $32.

Be sure to do any bending cold (about room temperature), especially with the leaded brass C360. Lest that 2-3% lead melt & the brass part crumble on you.

[44-henry]

We do both sand and investment casting in my university lab, many other schools do also. If you were to go the casting route it might be easier to get someone at a local school to do the work for you rather than dealing with a foundry. The only issue you may have is getting them to pour it in brass. I do pour brass in our foundry, but I much prefer having my students work with aluminum or bronze to bypass the nasty fumes that come off the brass. You can also build a Gingery style charcoal foundry and do it yourself, it is neither difficult or expensive, but it is dirty. I buy a lot of my casting brass at the thrift store in the form of 60's and 70's vintage ugly little decorative critters cast in India.